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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6302312" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I didn't elaborate enough it would seem so I think you and  [MENTION=2303]Starfox[/MENTION] were thinking of a different sort of failure than I was.  D&D is such a combat as primary means of conflict resolution paradigm that I suppose its just a presupposition.  The fallout there is typically death or TPK.  This isn't the sort of resolution I was referring to and it wasn't the sort of fallout I was referring to.I was referring to conflicts that produce loss or setback that does not include the death of a player or a TPK.  I was referring to fallout such as a parlay going haywire and therefore the PCs suffer from lack of alliance or someone/thing that is important to them is lost or terminally at risk (or outright executed).  Failing to protect an innocent (or innocence) from being collateral damage in a combat or failing to save them from a burning building, a forest fire, or an earthquake is an example.  Anything that compromises (makes their life more difficult and interesting) the PC from an intangible perspective (difficult ethos prioritzation for instance).  Sytems with robust noncombat conflict resolution, and fallout feedback, accomplishes this sort of thematic loss that I'm referring to.  Combat systems that have the metagame heft to produce this sort of non-lethal (to the PCs) scenario is what I'm referring to.  An example going on right now in my 4e PBP on here is the protection of a daughter (a minion) by her father and the PC as a tentacle beast attacks their vessel in the bay.  Its strategically important and emotionally important for the PC to protect this little girl but the odds of her herself dying from this attack are remote.</blockquote>

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