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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7454809" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!See the other thread for my long-winded replies (mostly to [MENTION=6785785]hawkeyefan[/MENTION]) for details on my thoughts.But for this thread...the problem isn't a "TPK", it's how you are structuring/defining "campaign".Here's how my campaigns works:Day 0: A, B, C and D are created and begin their adventuring careers.Day 1 - 7: They travel from town to upper level of the ruins/dungeon near by, and back twice. Each haul brings wealth, information, and a slow realization that something...or somethingS...in the deeper level is causing the monsters withing the complex to ascent to higher levels, or being pushed out into the wilderness where they are killing sheep and terrorizing farmers.Day 8 - 10: PC's venture back into the ruins/dungeon and descend a bit too far, too quickly. They end up all getting trapped by the organized bad guys who end up killing (and eating) all of them. TPK.Day 40: Players roll up characters E, F, G and H.  I say to the Players PC's "You have all come to this little town from wherever you used to live a normal life. This is your Adventuring life now. Merchants tell of an influx of creatures, much more populous and strange, than the area is used to, in and around this area. At the Inn of the Silver Duck, you got to know one another, roughly, over the last two or so days. THIS morning, however, in the middle of your breakfast, the door bursts open and a beaten and bloodied farmer falls to the floor. He lifts his head just high enough to fix is gaze with you and he rasps out...'It's..coming...!", then drops down. Passed out cold. What do you do?"Day 41 - 44: PC's defeat the ogre that came from the ruins, chasing the poor farmer from day 40. That farmer is talked to and the PC's are pointed to the ruins/dungeon. They gather some meager equipment, and have agreed to look into the matter for the small town.Day 45 - 60: The PC' successfully investigate, slaying many foes and descending down to where the last PC group was TPK'ed. ..."You quietly open the door after successfully picking the lock. It creaks a bit, like it hasn't been opened in quite a while. The stench of blood and offal wafts out, choking your breath. A few seconds later, your torchlight reveals 4 long-deal corpses (PC's A B C D )...if you can call them that. They have been stripped of any meat and their entrails lay rotting, strewn about the edges of the room, thrown their by their butcher."...etc...That is how I run a campaign. The "campaign" doesn't just "stop". The story doesn't just "end" when the PC's all die from a TPK. The campaign isn't derailed, it doesn't end, it isn't really affected at all in the above example. If you are running a "save the country" story with the bad guys taking over government and positions of power in stead of coming up from the lower levels of a dungeon, then you just adjust the story to fit into how quickly and effectively the bad guys would/could have been without PC's to hinder them for a month or so.In stead of Day 40 starting with the PC's wandering into town after hearing rumors of more monsters in the area, they would have seen a crack down on the local thieves guild, or some religion, or some other 'civilization power grab goal' of the bad guys. Things that would indicate that the situation has gotten worse.As for "save the WORLD!!!" adventures...I think they're stupid. Yeah, I know, heresy! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> The reason I think they are dumb is because of the believability of it all. In a setting with gods and uber-powerful beings, there is simply no way for a whole 'world' to be completely and utterly destroyed/changed/taken-over by some evil god, demon lord, or arch-devil. Too many other equally as powerful beings have too much invested into the 'world' to just let some multi-headed dragon queen "take over". Not gonna happen. Pretty sure Bahaumat would have something to say about that.Of course, if a DM is willing to put in the work to fully "demolish" his campaign world/setting, turning it into a sort of hell-on-earth type of thing after the PC's fail...that's cool. Why? Because the campaign didn't "end" with the PC's failing to stop the BBEGod...it's still going, it's just a LOT different now! I have a boxed set from the old Mayfair games company called "Apocalypse" that I've always wanted to use. One day, maybe, one day... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Long story short: A "campaign" is a continuation of a timeline in regards to the groups chosen setting, regardless of a particular PC's living or dying. A "campaign" isn't a series of adventures from level 1 to 20...at least not in how the original definition of it goes AFAIR. Modern games have taken to, imho, erroneously calling such "adventure paths" a "Campaign". If a DM is thinking of, and running as, an "Adventure Path" as a "campaign", then yup...a TPK can totally derail it. Because (again, IMHO) they are not meant to be taken/used as an actual Campaign; they are a series of adventures telling a story that the PC's participate in (they don't "make it up", the "participate in it"). But if a DM is running an, lets call it Old Skool Campaign, then a TPK isn't the end of anything other than the PC's lives...new PC's come in and either pick up where the dead PC's left off, or they deal with the consequences of those dead PC's failing. ^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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