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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8880597" data-attributes="member: 67338">that is NOT what I am arguing. My argument today and my argument in 2015 when I was already sick of this edition war is simple... please address it and not a made up one:&quot;We can not ever know for sure what the sales numbers are, we have small peeks behind the curtain and some say one thing and others say the opposite. We can either take ALL the facts and admit we can't call it, or we can take NONE of the facts and go by our biased gut instincts. Either way no pro PF person will ever convince a pro 4e person that PF 'beat' 4e, and no pro 4e person will ever convince a prof PF person that 4e 'beat' PF. This has come down to opinion and opinion only.&quot;I have in the past compared this edition war to the black panther or captian America vs batman arguments... both sides have solid facts they can point to in the way of feats of the hero they think would win, and examples of the one they think would lose losing to similar attacks. the problem is ONLY when one side take the stance &quot;No way X can beat Y&quot; because you can look at those 'facts' and get either answer.This is pointless &quot;my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend&quot; nonsense, and I would bet WotC/Hasbro will NEVER release the full item break down, and my gut says piazo (shouldn't) wont either. Without that information we are back to what SHOULD be the only metric... why we liked one and disliked the other,</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 8880597, member: 67338"] that is NOT what I am arguing. My argument today and my argument in 2015 when I was already sick of this edition war is simple... please address it and not a made up one: "We can not ever know for sure what the sales numbers are, we have small peeks behind the curtain and some say one thing and others say the opposite. We can either take ALL the facts and admit we can't call it, or we can take NONE of the facts and go by our biased gut instincts. Either way no pro PF person will ever convince a pro 4e person that PF 'beat' 4e, and no pro 4e person will ever convince a prof PF person that 4e 'beat' PF. This has come down to opinion and opinion only." I have in the past compared this edition war to the black panther or captian America vs batman arguments... both sides have solid facts they can point to in the way of feats of the hero they think would win, and examples of the one they think would lose losing to similar attacks. the problem is ONLY when one side take the stance "No way X can beat Y" because you can look at those 'facts' and get either answer. This is pointless "my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend" nonsense, and I would bet WotC/Hasbro will NEVER release the full item break down, and my gut says piazo (shouldn't) wont either. Without that information we are back to what SHOULD be the only metric... why we liked one and disliked the other, [/QUOTE]

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