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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6686962" data-attributes="member: 4937">Lying itself is such a broad category that I don't want to touch it as a whole.  It requires an answer to the question, "Are all deceptions, even in a broken world, evil?"  Certainly self-interested lies are at least chaotic, like so called 'little white lies', and self-interested lies that harm the receiver are certainly also evil.  But what about a lie that is not self-interested, is not cowardly but courageous, and protects the innocent from immediate harm?  For example, if the Nazi's come banging on your door, are you required to tell them that you have Jews hiding in your basement if they ask?   I won't attempt an answer to such a complex question here, even if I could assume that I could fit such a discussion in a two axis framework.But treachery?  Treachery is evil.  Betrayal is evil.  Betrayal is bottom circle of hell sort of evil.  It's a crime against faith, hope, and love combined, and advances the cause of evil faster than just about anything.  Again, the problem isn't killing per se.  The problem is the circumstances and the means.  Sort of agree.  Neutral if they tell someone in town, "We've got some brigands locked up in the old moat house.  They'll probably get a bit thirsty and hungry soon, and might be more amendable to throwing their arms and coming along quietly."   Evil if they don't care how they die or intend them to die.   Even if they agree that something has to die, good aligned characters believe that even the death should be merciful.  As for the reasons for the deal, I agree that its possible that there are mitigating circumstances around forming the deal - rescuing an innocent hostage, for example.   I think even in that situation, the LG paladin would be up front about how limited the deal really is and what the terms are: "Take the treasure and go.  I'll give you a day to clear out and make yourself scarce.  But understand, this isn't amnesty.  I'm only doing this to save the life of the girl.  If I ever see you again, you'll face justice.  And if I hear about your further crimes, I'll be sure you see me soon."  Still, failure to clarify the terms is a lack of wisdom, and not evil or chaotic action.  But lacking specific terms to the deal, good demands generosity and law demands you be fair.  Immediately trying to find a way to back out of the agreement, is simply being treacherous.</blockquote>

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