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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5371937" data-attributes="member: 4937">Hogwash.  We are also the 'tiny minority' who stayed with it despite the lack of increasing complexity of the systems on offer, as evidenced by the very 'old school revival' and 'there is only one true game and it is OD&D'.  And we are also the 'tiny minority' of gamers how didn't start with the game with the 1980 red box, but who started with 2e or 3e or who play C&S or C&C or Savage Worlds or Fantasy Craft or who knows what.  We are no more and no less homogenous as a group of gamers now than then.  Why do you persist in confusing a cultural issue with a mechanical issue?  I run sandboxes using 3.5 and I do just fine (in fact, I don't feel my DMing style has really changed between 1e and now) and whatever 'mechanical mindset' you have doesn't impact what I do.  It's an artifact of who you are playing with and your tables culture and not of the system.The word you are looking for here is 'culture'.  While I acknowledge that laws and rules can have a slight impact on a groups culture (in the real world usually one that requires many years to accumulate into noticible changes), one of the problems I have with 'statism' and 'systemism' alike is the failure to recognize just how relatively small a component the law is in the overall culture of a community and how relatively little impact the law alone can have over a culture.   Indeed, one of the big problems of 'statists' is that they don't even recognize that culture exists, or if they do recognize it, don't realize what a culture is, and so not only completely misdiagnose problems but completely fail to realize how some new set of laws will actually work in the light of the prevailing culture.   'Systemists' fail to realize that you can change the law completely and end up with effectively the exact same game (something brilliantly parodied by KotDT I might add).</blockquote>

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