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The opposite of OSR
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8339988" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>The players have no ability to narrate stuff happening -- that's not what your example shows. Your example shows the player's asking if it's okay to set the hay on fire and the GM permitting it with a test. That's not narrating, it's asking the GM. The second part, where the players try to use the smoke to escape? Again, this is asking the GM for permission to do this, and to adjudicate in the players' favor. There's nothing at all binding on the GM in your example here.</p><p></p><p>However, in FATE, the move to create an aspect in the scene of "on fire" is a move the GM cannot refuse, only challenge. And, on a success, the move works as the player intends and this distinction is set -- the GM cannot gainsay this. This is because final word on the rules is not authority to ignore them, but instead final say in case of a conflict about what the rules mean -- it's for breaking stalemates when the table has no consensus on how the rule works in this situation, or for breaking stalemate when a move may violate genre conventions. The GM is not free to negate a legitimate move in FATE. Further, once the aspect is established, the GM cannot gainsay a successful leveraging of the aspect -- he's bound to honor the escape if it successfully leverages the "on fire" scene tag.</p><p></p><p>What you're doing here is imagining a series of events, which can happen in both games, and saying that they are therefore the same. This isn't true, though, because the way you get through those events is different. If we accept that same series means same game, then pretty much any game falls to this comparison -- I can create a similar set of events in just about any RPG out there, including Dread, Kids on Bikes, Blades in the Dark, Monsterhearts, Fiasco, My Life with Master, etc, etc. It's a very thin argument -- wafer thin, even. So thin that the diner could safely eat it, even while stuffed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8339988, member: 16814"] The players have no ability to narrate stuff happening -- that's not what your example shows. Your example shows the player's asking if it's okay to set the hay on fire and the GM permitting it with a test. That's not narrating, it's asking the GM. The second part, where the players try to use the smoke to escape? Again, this is asking the GM for permission to do this, and to adjudicate in the players' favor. There's nothing at all binding on the GM in your example here. However, in FATE, the move to create an aspect in the scene of "on fire" is a move the GM cannot refuse, only challenge. And, on a success, the move works as the player intends and this distinction is set -- the GM cannot gainsay this. This is because final word on the rules is not authority to ignore them, but instead final say in case of a conflict about what the rules mean -- it's for breaking stalemates when the table has no consensus on how the rule works in this situation, or for breaking stalemate when a move may violate genre conventions. The GM is not free to negate a legitimate move in FATE. Further, once the aspect is established, the GM cannot gainsay a successful leveraging of the aspect -- he's bound to honor the escape if it successfully leverages the "on fire" scene tag. What you're doing here is imagining a series of events, which can happen in both games, and saying that they are therefore the same. This isn't true, though, because the way you get through those events is different. If we accept that same series means same game, then pretty much any game falls to this comparison -- I can create a similar set of events in just about any RPG out there, including Dread, Kids on Bikes, Blades in the Dark, Monsterhearts, Fiasco, My Life with Master, etc, etc. It's a very thin argument -- wafer thin, even. So thin that the diner could safely eat it, even while stuffed. [/QUOTE]
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