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Message: <blockquote data-quote="drjones" data-source="post: 4149550" data-attributes="member: 62944">the Rome, Byzantine, Egyptian, Maya etc. model: You have a good system and you take over large areas militarily and subjugate them.  Something shifts, economy, weather, technology, corruption and the mighty empire finds it is having trouble affording to protect all those outlying states.  It does not 'fall' so much as pull its sphere of influence back further and further as it's power wanes leaving frontier areas that once were pretty civilized but now are wild and dangerous.The trappings of the great empire are still there but whatever circumstances drove them to conquer is gone.There seems to be an intentional design decision with generic 4th that your DnD game does not have to mirror real life history at all, which is fine, but I don't know that that precludes having civilization fall apart in the same way.  Maybe instead of becoming corrupt on bribes and fine living your aristocrats have been corrupted by infernal pacts or attempts to live forever?  Result is the same, no attention payed to the hinterlands where the adventures happen.</blockquote>