Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Origin of Monty Haul
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7796475" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>Nope. B/X basically says the same thing as the 1e DMG:</p><p></p><p><strong>"No. Appearing</strong> gives the suggest number of that monster type which will appear when encountered on the same dungeon level as that monster's<strong> hit dice</strong>. EXAMPLE: if a monster has 3+1 hit dice and the No. Appearing is 1-6, then 1d6 of those monsters may commonly encountered on the 3rd dungeon level. When the same monster is met on levels greater than the monster's level, <em>more </em>monsters should be encountered or when encountered on levels less than the monster's level, <em>fewer </em>monsters should be found. The exact number is left to the DM's choice."</p><p></p><p>on pg b60 it talks about balance, but only that a DM should try to maintain "balance of play" by trying to keep treasure balanced by danger, and if PCs keep dying, to tone back the monsters they find. No actual rules though.</p><p></p><p>Either way, TSR era D&D did not have encounter building rules like what you think of. Just a vague guideline/suggestion. Saying "monster HD should match the dungeon level" isn't a rule for encounter balancing because:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">it doesn't take into effect the # or level of the PCs in that dungeon level (the same 1d6 creatures would be there if there were 2 PCs or 5 PCs).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">monster HD in TSR D&D was not the best metric for determining a monster's combat effectiveness anyway (It's why CR came along)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">even by going by those tables, a 1st level party could end up fighting a dragon or lycanthrope (how is that balanced?)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">there is no metric or rule about how many encounters a party should face per adventuring day</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">those tables are for random encounters anyway, not encounter design in the actual adventurer (those books did give advice on what monsters to use in your adventure, but it was literally just "make them make sense for that area.". nothing on balancing mechanically)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">there was no rules around what defines an easy, medium, etc encounter</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>Which all goes back to the original point made in the OP that was I was referencing to. Back then, you had no idea as a player if any given encounter was going to be a TPK if you just went in all arena style. You had to do a risk assessment, often flee, come up with a plan, and then execute that plan later even if that meant gaining levels and bringing more henchmen. When actual encounter balancing rules came into play, people started assuming that at any given time with any given party, they could beat the encounter in pure vanilla combat because said encounter rules kept all encounters as a beatable (even if super tough) scenario. There was an assumed style of play that started that the DMs were all keeping encounters within the encounter building guideline (and if a DM didn't, they were accused of bad DMing and being unfair).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7796475, member: 15700"] Nope. B/X basically says the same thing as the 1e DMG: [B]"No. Appearing[/B] gives the suggest number of that monster type which will appear when encountered on the same dungeon level as that monster's[B] hit dice[/B]. EXAMPLE: if a monster has 3+1 hit dice and the No. Appearing is 1-6, then 1d6 of those monsters may commonly encountered on the 3rd dungeon level. When the same monster is met on levels greater than the monster's level, [I]more [/I]monsters should be encountered or when encountered on levels less than the monster's level, [I]fewer [/I]monsters should be found. The exact number is left to the DM's choice." on pg b60 it talks about balance, but only that a DM should try to maintain "balance of play" by trying to keep treasure balanced by danger, and if PCs keep dying, to tone back the monsters they find. No actual rules though. Either way, TSR era D&D did not have encounter building rules like what you think of. Just a vague guideline/suggestion. Saying "monster HD should match the dungeon level" isn't a rule for encounter balancing because: [LIST] [*]it doesn't take into effect the # or level of the PCs in that dungeon level (the same 1d6 creatures would be there if there were 2 PCs or 5 PCs). [*]monster HD in TSR D&D was not the best metric for determining a monster's combat effectiveness anyway (It's why CR came along) [*]even by going by those tables, a 1st level party could end up fighting a dragon or lycanthrope (how is that balanced?) [*]there is no metric or rule about how many encounters a party should face per adventuring day [*]those tables are for random encounters anyway, not encounter design in the actual adventurer (those books did give advice on what monsters to use in your adventure, but it was literally just "make them make sense for that area.". nothing on balancing mechanically) [*]there was no rules around what defines an easy, medium, etc encounter [/LIST] Which all goes back to the original point made in the OP that was I was referencing to. Back then, you had no idea as a player if any given encounter was going to be a TPK if you just went in all arena style. You had to do a risk assessment, often flee, come up with a plan, and then execute that plan later even if that meant gaining levels and bringing more henchmen. When actual encounter balancing rules came into play, people started assuming that at any given time with any given party, they could beat the encounter in pure vanilla combat because said encounter rules kept all encounters as a beatable (even if super tough) scenario. There was an assumed style of play that started that the DMs were all keeping encounters within the encounter building guideline (and if a DM didn't, they were accused of bad DMing and being unfair). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Origin of Monty Haul
Top