Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The origin of Rangers with Two-Weapon-Fighting
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Aaron L" data-source="post: 3375556" data-attributes="member: 926"><p>The Crystal Shard came out January 1st, 1988. AD&D 2nd Edition was released middle to late 1989. The Crystal Shard <em>was</em> immensely successful from the get go, if I recall correctly (I have heard lots of horror stories from my friends who were playing at the time of people wanting to play Drizzt clones all over the place), and with the (commonly assumed) attitude of TSR at the time of not bothering with market research and assuming that people would buy whatever they put out "just because the were TSR" (as is the common wisdom nowadays, and is held as the reason for TSR's downfall) and the attitude at TSR of doing it's best to distance itself from Gygax as much as possible (according to several sources), the dual wielding Ranger coming straight from Drizzt is the only logical colclusion I can reach, and a year to include the change in the upcoming game books seems like enough time to me, especially if there was a fan in the development team championing the change, which I believe to be the case. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The 2E Ranger is so drastically different from the 1E Ranger that it's almost staggering, with the two having nothing in common but the name and both having vague "favored enemy" rules (giant-class in 1E, species enemy in 2E.) Considering that almost every other class in 2E was a direct port of the 1E classes (with the exception of the Illusionist where they were trying to make Specialist Mages more uniform), the drastic alteration of the Ranger, which coincidently made it a close match for the abilities and preferred methods of Drizzt, makes it very hard to believe that they weren't trying to remake the Ranger class in his image. </p><p></p><p>Otherwise it's a case of parallel evolution on par with the old Star Trek:TOS episodes where they would encounter planets that had developed exactly like Earth and had their own Roman Empires and such. In other words, highly, highly unlikely. I'll employ Occam's Razor and hold to my conclusion that Drizzt was the instigating factor in the change.</p><p></p><p> </p><p>I've always assumed that they originally had a 2E Ranger much more inline with the 1E version, but ditched it at the last minute in favor of what was eventually put out in order to cash in on Drizzt's popularity... or perhaps someone at TSR at the time was a big fan of the character, and decided to remake the Ranger for 2E as one more way to distance the game from 1E.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Compare the 1E Paladin and the 2E Paladin, and then compare the 1E Ranger with the 2E Ranger. Whereas the Paladins have very little difference between them (discounting Unearthed Arcana Cavalier-Paladins), the differences between the two versions of the Ranger makes my eyes pop. It went from stormtrooper-commando slayer-of-humanoid-hordes with survival skills for behind the enemy lines, to a mystical forest warden and hunter with animal empathy. Now both are good concepts, and I don't want to disparage the later Rangers, but the 2 and 3E versions are just so different from the original conception of the class that I still feel it's loss.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aaron L, post: 3375556, member: 926"] The Crystal Shard came out January 1st, 1988. AD&D 2nd Edition was released middle to late 1989. The Crystal Shard [i]was[/i] immensely successful from the get go, if I recall correctly (I have heard lots of horror stories from my friends who were playing at the time of people wanting to play Drizzt clones all over the place), and with the (commonly assumed) attitude of TSR at the time of not bothering with market research and assuming that people would buy whatever they put out "just because the were TSR" (as is the common wisdom nowadays, and is held as the reason for TSR's downfall) and the attitude at TSR of doing it's best to distance itself from Gygax as much as possible (according to several sources), the dual wielding Ranger coming straight from Drizzt is the only logical colclusion I can reach, and a year to include the change in the upcoming game books seems like enough time to me, especially if there was a fan in the development team championing the change, which I believe to be the case. The 2E Ranger is so drastically different from the 1E Ranger that it's almost staggering, with the two having nothing in common but the name and both having vague "favored enemy" rules (giant-class in 1E, species enemy in 2E.) Considering that almost every other class in 2E was a direct port of the 1E classes (with the exception of the Illusionist where they were trying to make Specialist Mages more uniform), the drastic alteration of the Ranger, which coincidently made it a close match for the abilities and preferred methods of Drizzt, makes it very hard to believe that they weren't trying to remake the Ranger class in his image. Otherwise it's a case of parallel evolution on par with the old Star Trek:TOS episodes where they would encounter planets that had developed exactly like Earth and had their own Roman Empires and such. In other words, highly, highly unlikely. I'll employ Occam's Razor and hold to my conclusion that Drizzt was the instigating factor in the change. I've always assumed that they originally had a 2E Ranger much more inline with the 1E version, but ditched it at the last minute in favor of what was eventually put out in order to cash in on Drizzt's popularity... or perhaps someone at TSR at the time was a big fan of the character, and decided to remake the Ranger for 2E as one more way to distance the game from 1E. Compare the 1E Paladin and the 2E Paladin, and then compare the 1E Ranger with the 2E Ranger. Whereas the Paladins have very little difference between them (discounting Unearthed Arcana Cavalier-Paladins), the differences between the two versions of the Ranger makes my eyes pop. It went from stormtrooper-commando slayer-of-humanoid-hordes with survival skills for behind the enemy lines, to a mystical forest warden and hunter with animal empathy. Now both are good concepts, and I don't want to disparage the later Rangers, but the 2 and 3E versions are just so different from the original conception of the class that I still feel it's loss. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The origin of Rangers with Two-Weapon-Fighting
Top