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<blockquote data-quote="Olgar Shiverstone" data-source="post: 3376741" data-attributes="member: 5868">I don't buy all of that.&nbsp; What does TWF have to do with the woodsman achetype? Archery or spear or axe specialization would have been more appropriate to the archetype.1E Rangers were pretty solid woodsmen, particularly if you enforced the weapon proficincy rules (which required sword, bow, axe, and spear IIRC).&nbsp; They could have simply restricted ranger armor without the TWF thing. The armor was a problem, true, but that was really the fault of 1E armor rules, which didn't have the Max Dex concept and other penalties.&nbsp; Stealth skills were definitely an improvement with the 2E ranger, I'll grant you, and stealth + light armor just makes sense (plus I appreciate the way 3E encourages that mechanically with Max Dex and Armor Check penalties, but you can still go the plate route if you want).&nbsp; &nbsp; But TWF? Nah.&nbsp; That says &quot;rogue&quot; or &quot;swashbuckler&quot; to me -- Captain Blood, not Robin Hood.Edit: To find out if the Ranger or Drizzt came first, you need to find out if Bob Salvatore had access to the early drafts of the 2E PHB -- about 2 1/2 years before it was published given publishing and writing lead times for the novel.&nbsp; Otherwise, the timing certainly favors the Drizzt-before-Ranger theory.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Olgar Shiverstone, post: 3376741, member: 5868"] I don't buy all of that. What does TWF have to do with the woodsman achetype? Archery or spear or axe specialization would have been more appropriate to the archetype. 1E Rangers were pretty solid woodsmen, particularly if you enforced the weapon proficincy rules (which required sword, bow, axe, and spear IIRC). They could have simply restricted ranger armor without the TWF thing. The armor was a problem, true, but that was really the fault of 1E armor rules, which didn't have the Max Dex concept and other penalties. Stealth skills were definitely an improvement with the 2E ranger, I'll grant you, and stealth + light armor just makes sense (plus I appreciate the way 3E encourages that mechanically with Max Dex and Armor Check penalties, but you can still go the plate route if you want). But TWF? Nah. That says "rogue" or "swashbuckler" to me -- Captain Blood, not Robin Hood. Edit: To find out if the Ranger or Drizzt came first, you need to find out if Bob Salvatore had access to the early drafts of the 2E PHB -- about 2 1/2 years before it was published given publishing and writing lead times for the novel. Otherwise, the timing certainly favors the Drizzt-before-Ranger theory. [/QUOTE]

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