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Message: <blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8174817" data-attributes="member: 86653">Initiative in 5E is three paragraphs long and requires understanding a second subsystem (“every participant makes a Dexterity check”) which is an additional three paragraphs to five pages depending on how you want to count.Examples of things more complicated in 5E than AD&D: Character creation. Spells. Spellcasting. Classes. Class abilities. Saves. Combat. Dying. So...the majority of the game.But picking AD&D as the comparison is kind of a strawman. Notoriously overwritten, disorganized, incomplete, and confusing...especially if you try to play it RAW. Look at B/X’s initiative for a better comparison. It’s actually three paragraphs which contain not only the complete rules for initiative, but a list of everything you can do in a round, a lot of redundancy, and explanations.To me B/X is infinitely more elegant than 5E. How’s B/X initiative work? Each side rolls a d6, high roll goes first. Done. What’s 5E again? Everyone makes a DEX check, modified by ability modifier, class features, feat bonuses, spell effects, magic items, then arrange in order, then run them each in order. How about searching for secret doors? B/X it’s 1d6 modified by race or class. How’s it work in 5E again? Well, that all depends on how you run passive perception.Elegance isn’t an inherent quality to new things. Elegance is simplicity and ease of use. Rules that are short and sweet. Fewer rules more broadly applied, not more rules that are narrowly focused. Fewer words to explain the concept. Was 3E more elegant than 2E? 4E more elegant than 3E? Nope. Less elegant each time. Except ascending AC replacing THAC0. That was elegant. Longer and longer spell descriptions? That’s not elegant. 5E is absolutely more elegant than 3E and 4E, granted. That doesn’t mean it’s the most elegant version of D&D. Nor does it mean all newer games are inherently more elegant or better than all older games.Non-D&D example: WFRP. 4E is the newest, therefore it must be the most elegant, right?</blockquote>

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