Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Origins of ‘Rule Zero’
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="loverdrive" data-source="post: 8174973" data-attributes="member: 7027139"><p>Maybe I didn't make myself clear.</p><p></p><p>Rule 0 is only <em>needed</em> in rules-first games, because only in rules-first games there may be a situation where the results of rules at work don't make sense -- because rules exist separately from the fiction.</p><p></p><p>In rules-first, rules <em>represent</em> fictional concepts and events. Examples:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lance theoretically can be used when unmounted, but it's supposed to be used by mounted warriors, who wield it in one hand. So, we come up with a rule: "a lance requires two hands to wield when you aren't mounted."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Using two weapons should allow making more attacks than you can do with one weapon. So, we come up with a rule: "When you take the Attack action and Attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a Bonus Action to Attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand".</li> </ul><p></p><p>In a fiction-first game, a lance is just a lance, a heavy weapon, used by mounted knights and holding two weapons means just holding two weapons -- the character "on screen" is using a lance (or two daggers) in a way that makes sense within the fictional context.</p><p></p><p>So a situation like "ok, so there's nothing in the rules that forbids me from dual-wielding lances if I take a Dual Wielder feat and ride a horse" just can't happen -- because riding a horse with two lances doesn't get translated into "I'm using Mounted combat rules and dual-wielding two D12 Piercing weapons with Reach" -- the character on-screen is wielding two lances, which on-screen would lead to a spectacular failure, unless the character in question is an enhanced super-soldier or something.</p><p></p><p>In a rules-first game you need to invoke rule 0 in order to forbid ridiculous knight with two lances who can fight even more effective than a reasonable knight with one lance. In a fiction-first game you don't need to invoke rule 0, because dual-lanced knight is gonna get reasonably screwed already.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Hm, TSR had a game with rigid, boardgamesque rules, but intended the game to work in various <em>fictional </em>circumstances. So they come up with a rule that allows to bypass the other rules if they don't produce sensible results, as opposed to building the game and embraces fiction from the ground up.</p><p></p><p>If that isn't a patch, I don't know what is.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="loverdrive, post: 8174973, member: 7027139"] Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Rule 0 is only [I]needed[/I] in rules-first games, because only in rules-first games there may be a situation where the results of rules at work don't make sense -- because rules exist separately from the fiction. In rules-first, rules [I]represent[/I] fictional concepts and events. Examples: [LIST] [*]Lance theoretically can be used when unmounted, but it's supposed to be used by mounted warriors, who wield it in one hand. So, we come up with a rule: "a lance requires two hands to wield when you aren't mounted." [*]Using two weapons should allow making more attacks than you can do with one weapon. So, we come up with a rule: "When you take the Attack action and Attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a Bonus Action to Attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand". [/LIST] In a fiction-first game, a lance is just a lance, a heavy weapon, used by mounted knights and holding two weapons means just holding two weapons -- the character "on screen" is using a lance (or two daggers) in a way that makes sense within the fictional context. So a situation like "ok, so there's nothing in the rules that forbids me from dual-wielding lances if I take a Dual Wielder feat and ride a horse" just can't happen -- because riding a horse with two lances doesn't get translated into "I'm using Mounted combat rules and dual-wielding two D12 Piercing weapons with Reach" -- the character on-screen is wielding two lances, which on-screen would lead to a spectacular failure, unless the character in question is an enhanced super-soldier or something. In a rules-first game you need to invoke rule 0 in order to forbid ridiculous knight with two lances who can fight even more effective than a reasonable knight with one lance. In a fiction-first game you don't need to invoke rule 0, because dual-lanced knight is gonna get reasonably screwed already. Hm, TSR had a game with rigid, boardgamesque rules, but intended the game to work in various [I]fictional [/I]circumstances. So they come up with a rule that allows to bypass the other rules if they don't produce sensible results, as opposed to building the game and embraces fiction from the ground up. If that isn't a patch, I don't know what is. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Origins of ‘Rule Zero’
Top