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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8177866" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>How does anyone of the stuff you respond with - “your sword draws a red line across the ogres chest”, “the arrow thunks into the wood of the table”, “the fireball explodes, crisping scorching the giant’s hair and clothing and leaving their skin a mass of blisters”, “Alaric is still breathing shallow, you bind his wounds and stop the bleeding, he seems to be stable” - affect the resolution that follows?</p><p></p><p>It would be no different if you said <em>your sword slashes the ogre's arm</em> or <em>the arrow passes over the table but glances off your helmet </em>or <em>the fireball explodes, causing the ogre to almost swoon from the heat</em> or <em>Alaric is dazed but fundamentally unhurt - you give him a sip of water and his eyes open - he'll be fine!</em></p><p></p><p>What actually affects the resolution process, and the subsequent play of the game, is <em>how many hp did the ogre lose?</em> and <em>that the attack roll for the arrow, modified in accordance with the cover rules, didn't make the character's AC</em> and <em>the hit point loss suffered by the ogre after resolving its saving throw vs the fireball </em>and <em>what the situation is with Alaric's hit points remaining and death saves and the outcome of a check made in accordance with the "death and dying" rules</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Here are some problems I think an AD&D GM is likely to encounter trying to follow the DW principles. I am not as familiar with 3E or 5e D&D as I am with AD&D, but I think the same sorts of problems are likely to be encountered:</p><p></p><p>* <em>Making the world fantastic</em> will be burdened by the idea that many if not most magical effects are - in the fiction - the result of discrete, learnable packets called "spells". This is less of an issue in the "classic" approach to D&D, which one still sees reflected in Gygax's DMG with its lists of weird tricks and its random dungeon generation tables that contain circular rooms with magical pools; but the general tendency of AD&D since c 1980 has been away from that sort of ad hoc "whimsy" towards world-building systematisation which spells form a part of. <em>Embrace the fantastic </em>can face similar problems, and is also not helped by the general approach to "mundane" character abilities (eg the rules for resolving hide in shadows in AD&D, or for resolving Stealth in 5e D&D, do not encourage <em>embracing of the fantastic </em>but tend to push towards <em>emphasis on the prosaic</em>).</p><p></p><p>* I've already discussed <em>drawing maps and leaving blanks</em>. The resolution mechanics for D&D don't support this. For instance, resolving travel is done by measuring distance on a map, reading terrain from a map, reading a movement rate of a "miles per day for a given terrain" chart (or maybe multiplying a base movement rate by a terrain modifier taken from a similar sort of chart) and then dividing the measured distance by the ascertained rate to calculate a travel time. This method is inherited from wargaming. It breaks down if <em>drawing maps and leaving blanks</em>. The point generalises to the various other D&D resolution procedures for actions that relate to architecture and travel.</p><p></p><p>* I have never seen a D&D module that embraces <em>giving every monster life</em>. Random encounters, encounters with N kobolds or orcs or gnolls or . . ., and the like all push against this. This is intimately connected to the combat and XP rules, which strongly encourage encounters with multiple relatively "faceless" creatures.</p><p></p><p>* <em>Asking questions and using the answers</em> is at odds with the sort of preparation of maps, keys and the like, which are advocated by key D&D texts (eg AD&D, B/X, the 3E DMG). It is not a technique that is easily integrated with the AD&D or similar approaches to things like <em>searching for traps, secret doors and the like</em>, to <em>listening at doors</em>, to the use of detection magic, etc. These rules elements are all presented as working in a way that presupposes the GM has a map, key and notes to turn to to provide answers to player questions. That's the opposite of the DW technique.</p><p></p><p>* <em>Beginning and ending with the fiction </em>is something I've already discussed. D&D combat does not do this - the turn structure, the action economy, the damage and hit point subsystem, the saving throw subsystem, etc are all at odds with this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8177866, member: 42582"] How does anyone of the stuff you respond with - “your sword draws a red line across the ogres chest”, “the arrow thunks into the wood of the table”, “the fireball explodes, crisping scorching the giant’s hair and clothing and leaving their skin a mass of blisters”, “Alaric is still breathing shallow, you bind his wounds and stop the bleeding, he seems to be stable” - affect the resolution that follows? It would be no different if you said [I]your sword slashes the ogre's arm[/I] or [I]the arrow passes over the table but glances off your helmet [/I]or [I]the fireball explodes, causing the ogre to almost swoon from the heat[/I] or [I]Alaric is dazed but fundamentally unhurt - you give him a sip of water and his eyes open - he'll be fine![/I] What actually affects the resolution process, and the subsequent play of the game, is [I]how many hp did the ogre lose?[/I] and [I]that the attack roll for the arrow, modified in accordance with the cover rules, didn't make the character's AC[/I] and [I]the hit point loss suffered by the ogre after resolving its saving throw vs the fireball [/I]and [I]what the situation is with Alaric's hit points remaining and death saves and the outcome of a check made in accordance with the "death and dying" rules[/I]. Here are some problems I think an AD&D GM is likely to encounter trying to follow the DW principles. I am not as familiar with 3E or 5e D&D as I am with AD&D, but I think the same sorts of problems are likely to be encountered: * [I]Making the world fantastic[/I] will be burdened by the idea that many if not most magical effects are - in the fiction - the result of discrete, learnable packets called "spells". This is less of an issue in the "classic" approach to D&D, which one still sees reflected in Gygax's DMG with its lists of weird tricks and its random dungeon generation tables that contain circular rooms with magical pools; but the general tendency of AD&D since c 1980 has been away from that sort of ad hoc "whimsy" towards world-building systematisation which spells form a part of. [I]Embrace the fantastic [/I]can face similar problems, and is also not helped by the general approach to "mundane" character abilities (eg the rules for resolving hide in shadows in AD&D, or for resolving Stealth in 5e D&D, do not encourage [I]embracing of the fantastic [/I]but tend to push towards [I]emphasis on the prosaic[/I]). * I've already discussed [I]drawing maps and leaving blanks[/I]. The resolution mechanics for D&D don't support this. For instance, resolving travel is done by measuring distance on a map, reading terrain from a map, reading a movement rate of a "miles per day for a given terrain" chart (or maybe multiplying a base movement rate by a terrain modifier taken from a similar sort of chart) and then dividing the measured distance by the ascertained rate to calculate a travel time. This method is inherited from wargaming. It breaks down if [I]drawing maps and leaving blanks[/I]. The point generalises to the various other D&D resolution procedures for actions that relate to architecture and travel. * I have never seen a D&D module that embraces [I]giving every monster life[/I]. Random encounters, encounters with N kobolds or orcs or gnolls or . . ., and the like all push against this. This is intimately connected to the combat and XP rules, which strongly encourage encounters with multiple relatively "faceless" creatures. * [I]Asking questions and using the answers[/I] is at odds with the sort of preparation of maps, keys and the like, which are advocated by key D&D texts (eg AD&D, B/X, the 3E DMG). It is not a technique that is easily integrated with the AD&D or similar approaches to things like [I]searching for traps, secret doors and the like[/I], to [I]listening at doors[/I], to the use of detection magic, etc. These rules elements are all presented as working in a way that presupposes the GM has a map, key and notes to turn to to provide answers to player questions. That's the opposite of the DW technique. * [I]Beginning and ending with the fiction [/I]is something I've already discussed. D&D combat does not do this - the turn structure, the action economy, the damage and hit point subsystem, the saving throw subsystem, etc are all at odds with this. [/QUOTE]
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