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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5422231" data-attributes="member: 35909">Overall it's an improvement.&nbsp; In 3E, the x4 at level 1 was too punitive and limiting, it SIGNIFICANTLY affected which class you started with if multiclassing and in general made races with racial HD grotesquely unappealing.&nbsp; If you disliked how punishing the 3E rules were for cross class skills, PF also improved that by making them cost the same and ave the exact same cap (aside from the +3 class bonus).There's definitely some drawbacks, too, though.&nbsp; One point wonders wre always popular in 3E for trained only skills, now the immediate jump 1 rank provides makes them even more prevalent IME.&nbsp; Rogues and other skill based classes lost a lot of their significance, it's way too easy now to just dip for class skills and then go back to being a class that's good at something else.&nbsp; The removal of cross class penalties and lower cap means that the high skill classes will struggle to establish themselves as being very good at any skill without paying feats to improve the bonus.&nbsp; Instead, they're just (even more of) a jack of all trades, with a big handful of skills they're good at, but not as good as someone else in the party.&nbsp; The 2nd poster mentioned how they were consolidated, this is also a major flaw.&nbsp; They were consolidated very poorly.&nbsp; Spot and Listen as individual skills were considered some of the best in 3E already.&nbsp; Making them both the same skill AND adding search as well is freaking nuts.&nbsp; Climb and Swim are still their own skills even though they mostly suck, and Jump got oddly moved in with Balance and Tumble, making it suddenly dex-based.&nbsp; Just some examples.Overall I think it's a better skill system, but I would tweak the consolidations of skills mightily if I were to DM pathfinder, and give boosts to rogue and possibly bard to make them better with skills.&nbsp; You could already do this in 3E.&nbsp; The only difference is no more skill synergies (which I miss greatly; add that to the drawbacks).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5422231, member: 35909"] Overall it's an improvement. In 3E, the x4 at level 1 was too punitive and limiting, it SIGNIFICANTLY affected which class you started with if multiclassing and in general made races with racial HD grotesquely unappealing. If you disliked how punishing the 3E rules were for cross class skills, PF also improved that by making them cost the same and ave the exact same cap (aside from the +3 class bonus). There's definitely some drawbacks, too, though. One point wonders wre always popular in 3E for trained only skills, now the immediate jump 1 rank provides makes them even more prevalent IME. Rogues and other skill based classes lost a lot of their significance, it's way too easy now to just dip for class skills and then go back to being a class that's good at something else. The removal of cross class penalties and lower cap means that the high skill classes will struggle to establish themselves as being very good at any skill without paying feats to improve the bonus. Instead, they're just (even more of) a jack of all trades, with a big handful of skills they're good at, but not as good as someone else in the party. The 2nd poster mentioned how they were consolidated, this is also a major flaw. They were consolidated very poorly. Spot and Listen as individual skills were considered some of the best in 3E already. Making them both the same skill AND adding search as well is freaking nuts. Climb and Swim are still their own skills even though they mostly suck, and Jump got oddly moved in with Balance and Tumble, making it suddenly dex-based. Just some examples. Overall I think it's a better skill system, but I would tweak the consolidations of skills mightily if I were to DM pathfinder, and give boosts to rogue and possibly bard to make them better with skills. You could already do this in 3E. The only difference is no more skill synergies (which I miss greatly; add that to the drawbacks). [/QUOTE]

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