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*Dungeons & Dragons
The Pendulum: Player Entitlement & DM Empowerment
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 6408262" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>The aim of the game should be (and I think in 5e it is) empowerment of both players and DMs. </p><p></p><p>The OP seems to make out people as the problem, when I tend to think of them as the solution. I mean, if you want a game with perfect rules, what you want is a computer game. Part of the fun of playing a tabletop game with friends is that rulings are possible - you can go beyond, exceed, and change the rules when the group desires.</p><p></p><p>Personally I find the natural language and ambiguity of 5e's rules welcome. When I played 4e, even with the exacting rules language there were tons of rules questions that emerged (as evidenced by the copious errata)... I'd go so far as to say that exacting rules language tends not to eliminate rules questions altogether, but instead NARROWS the scope of those questions to a very specific tactical scenario. It's getting bogged down in tactical minutiae - e.g. Opportunity attacks - where I've seen most DM/player disagreements.</p><p></p><p>OTOH, rulings of broader scope - e.g. What happens when a paladin falls? Do they lose all powers, some powers, no powers? - tend to be less contentious because they usually involve discussing the game fiction & wants of the player/DM. Rulings of broader scope are less about legalistic interpretation and more about negotiation. "Hey, DM, how do you think my paladin falling would work mechanically?" "Well, here's what I think... Not every paladin falls in the same way, so lets talk about your paladin's story. What do you think, player?"</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree. One thing I hope the DMG does is provide sidebar examples of DM rulings, particularly geared toward new DMs to help give them a sense of the impact of their rulings. For example, the fallen paladin - the sidebar could list how a couple different DMs might handle that scenario, ranging from preventing further advancement in the paladin class to stripping all magic powers until atonement, and how each impacts the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree wholeheartedly.</p><p></p><p>There's a good example from Hoard of the Dragon Queen: Cyanowrath, the half-dragon who challenges someone to face him in a deadly one-on-one fight or else he kills the hostages. While some people dislike the scenario as a matter of taste, the best criticism I've seen is what the adventure doesn't say. IOW it sorely needs DM advice about how to handle this scenario... about how to weave PC backgrounds into the confrontation with Cyanowrath to give it greater gravitas, how to clearly let the players know in advance that fighting Cyanowrath one-on-one is a death wish, what the intent of the encounter is for future adventures (to emotionally hook and galvanize players against the Cult of the Dragon - something Steve Winter explained in an interview but bears explicit mentioning in the adventure), and so on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 6408262, member: 20323"] The aim of the game should be (and I think in 5e it is) empowerment of both players and DMs. The OP seems to make out people as the problem, when I tend to think of them as the solution. I mean, if you want a game with perfect rules, what you want is a computer game. Part of the fun of playing a tabletop game with friends is that rulings are possible - you can go beyond, exceed, and change the rules when the group desires. Personally I find the natural language and ambiguity of 5e's rules welcome. When I played 4e, even with the exacting rules language there were tons of rules questions that emerged (as evidenced by the copious errata)... I'd go so far as to say that exacting rules language tends not to eliminate rules questions altogether, but instead NARROWS the scope of those questions to a very specific tactical scenario. It's getting bogged down in tactical minutiae - e.g. Opportunity attacks - where I've seen most DM/player disagreements. OTOH, rulings of broader scope - e.g. What happens when a paladin falls? Do they lose all powers, some powers, no powers? - tend to be less contentious because they usually involve discussing the game fiction & wants of the player/DM. Rulings of broader scope are less about legalistic interpretation and more about negotiation. "Hey, DM, how do you think my paladin falling would work mechanically?" "Well, here's what I think... Not every paladin falls in the same way, so lets talk about your paladin's story. What do you think, player?" I agree. One thing I hope the DMG does is provide sidebar examples of DM rulings, particularly geared toward new DMs to help give them a sense of the impact of their rulings. For example, the fallen paladin - the sidebar could list how a couple different DMs might handle that scenario, ranging from preventing further advancement in the paladin class to stripping all magic powers until atonement, and how each impacts the game. I agree wholeheartedly. There's a good example from Hoard of the Dragon Queen: Cyanowrath, the half-dragon who challenges someone to face him in a deadly one-on-one fight or else he kills the hostages. While some people dislike the scenario as a matter of taste, the best criticism I've seen is what the adventure doesn't say. IOW it sorely needs DM advice about how to handle this scenario... about how to weave PC backgrounds into the confrontation with Cyanowrath to give it greater gravitas, how to clearly let the players know in advance that fighting Cyanowrath one-on-one is a death wish, what the intent of the encounter is for future adventures (to emotionally hook and galvanize players against the Cult of the Dragon - something Steve Winter explained in an interview but bears explicit mentioning in the adventure), and so on. [/QUOTE]
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