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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7628080"><p>Yeah, I've certainly made that caricature. It was an impression I got from the kind of person who...well, the kind of person who wrote that "On your feet, solider!" fluff. But it's really a derivative concern, not the primary objection.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, fair enough. Although (correct me if I'm wrong) it's a bit edge case. Like, whether you can heal in an anti-magic zone, or if Counterspell prevents healing. And if your concern there is that it blows your immersion (although I hate that word) to have your re-fluffed non-magical healing Counterspelled, then you should know exactly how I feel about having that Warlord use "Magnetic Personality" (or whatever) to inspire me into higher HP. There's still a mechanical contradiction between how I want to perceive things, and what the abilities do.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and this argument that I can always just refuse to allow the abilities to affect me is a load of crap. Thanks, but given the choice to either subject myself to your Warlord's authority or be the jerk at the table (whether as a player refusing to play along with the fiction, or as a DM banning an official class from my table), I'll stick with vociferous opposition to the class itself and hope I won't get put in that spot.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely. Except...it doesn't really make a difference to me. Whether it's extraordinary talent or granted/earned position, your Warlord still ain't da boss of me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Like I said, doesn't matter. I don't care what the rationale is for dictating my character's emotions/obedience/whatever. You still ain't da boss of me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Warlord" is pretty terrible, too, but it's indicative of the problem, it's not the problem itself.</p><p></p><p>Look, I have no problem conceptually with a support class. I don't really care about martial healing (2nd Wind is fine.) I sorta share some of those concerns about action economy and action granting, but I assume that could be cleared up.</p><p></p><p>The things I object to are:</p><p>1) Your character having authority over mine or granting "orders"</p><p>2) It being dictated that my character looks up to yours as a "natural leader"</p><p>3) The implication that your character, regardless of level, is better at my job than I am. That I'm just a dumb grunt and I need you to tell me how to swing my sword or whatever.</p><p></p><p>If you (or others) can figure out how to describe all the mechanics you want so that none of the above are true, I will have no more objection than I do to other additional classes. I'm not quite sure how the martial healing would be fluffed to avoid those, but I'm open to it.</p><p></p><p>An earlier poster described the Sam Gamgee-like "Companion", which I know (from a history of going at it with you on this topic) was traditionally one way of portraying a Warlord. I love it. Bring it on. Let the people who fantasize about being Patton refluff the Companion into a Commander, instead of the other way around.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7628080"] Yeah, I've certainly made that caricature. It was an impression I got from the kind of person who...well, the kind of person who wrote that "On your feet, solider!" fluff. But it's really a derivative concern, not the primary objection. Ok, fair enough. Although (correct me if I'm wrong) it's a bit edge case. Like, whether you can heal in an anti-magic zone, or if Counterspell prevents healing. And if your concern there is that it blows your immersion (although I hate that word) to have your re-fluffed non-magical healing Counterspelled, then you should know exactly how I feel about having that Warlord use "Magnetic Personality" (or whatever) to inspire me into higher HP. There's still a mechanical contradiction between how I want to perceive things, and what the abilities do. Oh, and this argument that I can always just refuse to allow the abilities to affect me is a load of crap. Thanks, but given the choice to either subject myself to your Warlord's authority or be the jerk at the table (whether as a player refusing to play along with the fiction, or as a DM banning an official class from my table), I'll stick with vociferous opposition to the class itself and hope I won't get put in that spot. Absolutely. Except...it doesn't really make a difference to me. Whether it's extraordinary talent or granted/earned position, your Warlord still ain't da boss of me. Like I said, doesn't matter. I don't care what the rationale is for dictating my character's emotions/obedience/whatever. You still ain't da boss of me. "Warlord" is pretty terrible, too, but it's indicative of the problem, it's not the problem itself. Look, I have no problem conceptually with a support class. I don't really care about martial healing (2nd Wind is fine.) I sorta share some of those concerns about action economy and action granting, but I assume that could be cleared up. The things I object to are: 1) Your character having authority over mine or granting "orders" 2) It being dictated that my character looks up to yours as a "natural leader" 3) The implication that your character, regardless of level, is better at my job than I am. That I'm just a dumb grunt and I need you to tell me how to swing my sword or whatever. If you (or others) can figure out how to describe all the mechanics you want so that none of the above are true, I will have no more objection than I do to other additional classes. I'm not quite sure how the martial healing would be fluffed to avoid those, but I'm open to it. An earlier poster described the Sam Gamgee-like "Companion", which I know (from a history of going at it with you on this topic) was traditionally one way of portraying a Warlord. I love it. Bring it on. Let the people who fantasize about being Patton refluff the Companion into a Commander, instead of the other way around. [/QUOTE]
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