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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 9747594" data-attributes="member: 6802951">I feel that there is a tad too much polarisation in the state of the discussion currently. I know that is is a time-honoured tradition in internet discourse to set up a quintain at the far end of the arena for you to tilt at, by trying to depict your opponent as occupying an extreme viewpoint.However, the vast majority (and likely the entirety of the reasonable) demographic are somewhere much more around the middle, where DMs and players agree how much spotlight the warlock's patron gets, whether that is "Player asks the DM to incorporate the patron", through "DM uses the patron as an NPC or plot device to move things along" to "Patron does not get involved or mentioned".These days, a DM using class mechanics just as a stick to beat the player with is just as rare as players who insist that any interference with their characters by NPCs is unacceptable - and thankfully and rightfully so. But neither of these situations is an issue with the class or game mechanics, rather a problem with the personality of the individual. As such it is a social issue requiring discussion within what is hopefully a group of friends, and said individual would hopefully adjust their attitude when they find out how much of a jerk they are being. I do not feel that depicting DMs as power-tripping egomaniacs, or current players as over-entitled brats, is discussion in good faith. We know that the occasional exceptions exist, to give rise to horror stories. To declare that a significant portion of the demographic is like that however, just weakens your position because we know that argument is false, and it makes us wonder what else you are disingenuous about.So can we chill a bit, and engage a bit more with the actual arguments being made please? I think that we can all agree that all DMs have the technical capability to persecute the PCs, whether through class narrative or not, but that any DM that does so unreasonably (whether through the medium of warlock patrons, or a myriad of other ways) needs to be taken aside and given some life advice.If you can't assume a working social contract, you can't play D&D. So could we please not only start arguing in good faith, but also assume that everyone else in the thread is also doing so as well please?</blockquote>

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