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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kinak" data-source="post: 5922256" data-attributes="member: 6694112">This actually is why I have a lot of problem with including things like Bull Rush (moreso its attendant feats) and Tide of Iron in the rules. Because the players can, will, and (in my opinion) should do it themselves.So you're essentially redefining rules terms. Which, in the case of Bull Rush by itself, is totally fine. But when you start getting into feats and powers, starts stepping on class features, choices other characters have made, and screwing up feat trees.At the end of the day, you get two contradictory systems for pushing people (powers and stunts). I'm going to let people use stunts to do it regardless of whether there are powers doing it, so why have an entire additional system with all this rules baggage? What other effects does it have on the game when I obsolete Tide of Iron or Improved Bull Rush?Why shouldn't we do things the easy way again?I mean, I know that if we do things the hard way we can layer modifications on top of modifications. But, I dunno, it seems like we could also just go with the easy way. I hear it's nice this time of year <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I understand the joy of working within the system, twisting it this way and that to do the best you can. That's one of my favorite parts of my job, actually. But if I have to trade that in for ease of handling stunts and faster combat, that's not even a contest. I can totally understand why you'd feel differently, though.I agree players are worried about other players trampling on their characters moreso than any competition than the GM. Unless the GM has a confrontational style, which is a whole separate ball of yarn.An open stunt system undoubtedly awards players for taking actions matching the tone of the world the GM is presenting. Some GMs will get totally steamrolled by players, but I've watched GMs lose narrative control in a dozen different systems (most painfully Shadowrun). Rules can't fix that.What the rules can do is say "This is your group's game, not ours. You decide its tone, not us. Players that drive that tone and make the game more fun for everyone should be rewarded. Here's a mechanic for that."Cheers!Kinak</blockquote>

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