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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 4028285" data-attributes="member: 1003">I'm going to address Reynard's post "backwards" ...Agreed.  But I think D&D to date has kind of undershot the mark though when stressing the fantastic.  As they also noted in W&M, the only mounts price-listed on the PHB are mundane animals like horses and mules.  There's nary a gryphon or healing potion to be seen, with a few "alchemical" products being the sole suggestion that there's anything magical at all in the local bazaar.  I'd say that D&D was previously 98% mundane, and that 4E is shooting for 75%.  Or something like that.And this makes sense.  I agree with Monte's assertion that a purely mundane city just doesn't "make sense" in D&D world.  If you premise elves, wizards, dragons and 100,000+ years of recorded history (including Djinn, Mindflayer, Giant and Dragon "Ages"), then nothing should be even 75% mundane as you and I understand it.  I think 4E is still under-shooting the mark with some of their art that depicts Tudor cottages and French castles.Other course, as others have mentioned, some concessions have to be made to allow 21st century, mundane, human players to "cope" with the D&D world they find their PCs in.  So I think it's a good balance.Agreed, but I'm not sure that everyone wants to stress the fantastic that way.  I mean, most people don't play Star Wars to bask in the fantastic glow of Force powers; they want to blow up Storm Troopers (and fairly mundane activity), and the Force is just one way to do it. Or they tell stories, or roleplay, etc.  In fact, I don't think any of Robin Law's gamer categories is "Plays for cool fantasy moments."I guess what I'm getting at is that this may be a "fake" concern, in the sense that you're only real concern is not breaking the immersion, and thus hurting gameplay.I think that what's going to happen is that when 4E first comes out people will first play it 90% mundane, and then slowly turn the dial up on the fantastic as they learn to cope.  It's kind of like slowly adding hot water to the bath, rather than jumping right into the hot end of the sauna.  As a current Iron Heroes player, you won't get any arguments from me here.  But you have to consider then whether the full D&D class list is really for you.  The classes and races available to PCs and NPCs (and hence, what they can do to cause effects) really drive the flavor and feel of the campaign.  If you're going to have high-level spellcasters, it ain't gonna be mundane.  That's just how it works.What I've found playing Iron Heroes (and a little Burning Wheel) is that the only way to really play a low fantasy game is to have low fantasy classes.  You may have to consider limiting your class list to Fighter, Rogue and Warlord, with perhaps a little Arcane or Divine "Training" (or whatever they're calling it) to work the occasional ritual or minor magic.That's not really a relevant point.  You can only roleplay and have fun in environments you are familiar with and comfortable in.  The PC can't do anything independent of that.</blockquote>

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