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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 4031456" data-attributes="member: 15538">There's something I will call the Planescrape Threshold. It's a line, which pretty much runs directly through Planescape. I remember when Planescape was a really cool, hip thing, but it never quite became a mainstream appetite. It can go sort of either way, depending on the tastes of the moment, the zeitgeist. The line basically separates two regions of fantasy.The first region is the fantasy of Hollywood. You have knights, peasants, old wise women, dragons, ogres, leeching, lynching, the Holy Grail, evil sorcerer kings, and so forth. The near edge is King Arthur and his knights, the far edge is probably Leiber's Lankhmar books or maybe the D&D movie.The second region is Skyrealms of Jorune. These are places of pure fantasy. GURPS Fantasy II, Talislanta, Tekumel, Exalted, Glorantha, and the like are in the second region. The near edge is probably stuff like Talislanta and Vance's Dying Earth, which while strange, are recognizably swords-and-sorcery and at least nod to familiar Earth concepts. The far edge is stuff like Tekumel and Glorantha, which have a completely grounds-up different nature than Earth.What's the point? The stuff in the first region is an easy sell but potentially boring. Sometimes, cliches break down until the whole thing becomes nonsensical. The stuff in the second region is inaccessible. People have to study to even make reasonable characters for the game, and good luck understanding the point of the thing without reading the campaign book cover to cover. When done well, these kinds of settings can be intensely rewarding, but they are hard to find players for, and sometimes the authors have trouble connecting the various parts of the setting to make a coherent whole.In general, the "next big thing" of the moment will be stuff just over the line into the first region. In general, the stuff people love that won't stay in print and spawns endless fan sites and occasionally fan-based professional publication is just over the line into the second region. In between is contested ground; "oriental" settings tend to fall into this no man's land. Mystara and especially the Hollowed World are another example of settings that could be published and thrive but aren't and don't, because there are more accessible choices. I do not think 4e is "too fantastical." I think it definitely strays very close to that line. King Arthur, for instance, would hardly be at home, and even a thieves' guild might be pushing it in a world where PCs can go bullet time when they reach 12th level or so. However, I don't think 4e is in any danger of crossing over the Planescape Threshold.It will be a recognizable swords-and-sorcery world with ancient, medieval, and Renaissance touches, recognizable links to video game style high fantasy, recognizable links to popular D&D worlds. I think the designers are aiming to read just so close to that line without getting sucked in. Maximum interest without losing your audience's grounding. I'm not sure they hit the sweet spot, that really remains to be seen. and I have reservations about some of their aesthetic choices. But I think they will give us something comfortable enough to our fantasy RPG sensibilities. Is it too fantastical for my tates? Probably. And that's even though I love Talislanta and really like the Dying Earth, Tekumel, and Glorantha. But that's because I am looking for a more specific formulation. I've been through many editions of D&D, and to me, the D&D-ist are the ones where characters wear chainmail and use longswords, not leaf armor and singhams.</blockquote>

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