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<blockquote data-quote="Aaron L" data-source="post: 3392110" data-attributes="member: 926"><p>This is a fantasy game. One does not have a lot of Charisma because one is pretty, one is pretty because one has a lot of Charisma. The force of personality shining through and being reflected in the flesh. The favor of the gods and mystical forces of the universe shining their favor down upon the individual in the form of good looks. It goes back to the original definition of Charisma as being an element of divine or mystical favor, which 3E has done an admirable job of portraying. (Sorcerer spellcasting, Use Magic Device, etc.)</p><p></p><p>You react as if the description of Charisma is saying that it ONLY represents physical attractiveness, when it is saying that it merely encompasses it as an element. You can easily make a horridly ugly character with a 22 Charisma. Being attractive should be viewed as an expression of a characters Charisma, not a cause of it, and not even a necessary component; merely a possible one. </p><p></p><p></p><p>A highly Charismatic character could be ugly enough to make rocks roll out of his way, but have such force of personality to crush those same rocks with his glare (your hypothetical butt ugly CHA 22 Sorcerer.) Or could be shy and unassuming, but stunningly beautiful (a reflection of divine favor.) </p><p></p><p>Charisma implies force of personality and looks, and the ability to use them. Using your physical appearance, beauty or ugliness, to your advantage is Charisma. A mysterious, ugly, scar covered stranger with an air of power about him is certainly Charismatic (and I have played such a character since 1E.) </p><p></p><p></p><p>The same way that Dexterity is an average of hand eye coordination, physical agility, and reflexes (physical characteristics) as well as reaction speed and balance (mental characteristics) Charisma is an average of a characters attractiveness, force of personality, charm, leadership quality, and inborn mystical potential. </p><p></p><p>Divesting Charisma of it's physical aspects is hardly called for, as it's been this way since the VERY BEGINNING of roleplaying games, as one of the ORIGINAL codified ability scores, and I assure you that Mr Gygax knew full well all of the meanings of the word (and I'd go so far as to say his use of the word in D&D has had an effect on the way the word is commonly used today.) </p><p></p><p>Now, the separate Comeliness characteristic in Unearthed Arcana is something I can't quite explain, and we should ask Gary about it in his Q&A thread. I'm thinking he wanted to reduce Charisma to it's purely mystical/divine favor origins (ala Paladins requirement of a 17 CHA.)</p><p></p><p>But even then, you'll note that Charisma gave bonuses and penalties to ones Comeliness, so they were still connected.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aaron L, post: 3392110, member: 926"] This is a fantasy game. One does not have a lot of Charisma because one is pretty, one is pretty because one has a lot of Charisma. The force of personality shining through and being reflected in the flesh. The favor of the gods and mystical forces of the universe shining their favor down upon the individual in the form of good looks. It goes back to the original definition of Charisma as being an element of divine or mystical favor, which 3E has done an admirable job of portraying. (Sorcerer spellcasting, Use Magic Device, etc.) You react as if the description of Charisma is saying that it ONLY represents physical attractiveness, when it is saying that it merely encompasses it as an element. You can easily make a horridly ugly character with a 22 Charisma. Being attractive should be viewed as an expression of a characters Charisma, not a cause of it, and not even a necessary component; merely a possible one. A highly Charismatic character could be ugly enough to make rocks roll out of his way, but have such force of personality to crush those same rocks with his glare (your hypothetical butt ugly CHA 22 Sorcerer.) Or could be shy and unassuming, but stunningly beautiful (a reflection of divine favor.) Charisma implies force of personality and looks, and the ability to use them. Using your physical appearance, beauty or ugliness, to your advantage is Charisma. A mysterious, ugly, scar covered stranger with an air of power about him is certainly Charismatic (and I have played such a character since 1E.) The same way that Dexterity is an average of hand eye coordination, physical agility, and reflexes (physical characteristics) as well as reaction speed and balance (mental characteristics) Charisma is an average of a characters attractiveness, force of personality, charm, leadership quality, and inborn mystical potential. Divesting Charisma of it's physical aspects is hardly called for, as it's been this way since the VERY BEGINNING of roleplaying games, as one of the ORIGINAL codified ability scores, and I assure you that Mr Gygax knew full well all of the meanings of the word (and I'd go so far as to say his use of the word in D&D has had an effect on the way the word is commonly used today.) Now, the separate Comeliness characteristic in Unearthed Arcana is something I can't quite explain, and we should ask Gary about it in his Q&A thread. I'm thinking he wanted to reduce Charisma to it's purely mystical/divine favor origins (ala Paladins requirement of a 17 CHA.) But even then, you'll note that Charisma gave bonuses and penalties to ones Comeliness, so they were still connected. [/QUOTE]
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