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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aaron L" data-source="post: 3393109" data-attributes="member: 926">And Charisma being linked to physical attractiveness as merely one out of several aspects of the stat prevents you from doing this how, exactly?  Physical attractiveness is not the single defining element of Charisma, and no one is saying it is.  You can have your high Charisma character be as ugly as you want, but he or she will have other qualities such as force of personality, leadership quality, or simple good-natured friendliness to make up for a lack of good looks.  Conversely, you can have your stunningly beautiful character suffer from a low Charisma because of bad breath, horribly grating personality, paralyzing shyness, weak ability to exert his will on the outside world, or a myriad of other reasons.  Nothing is restricting you from describing your character's looks in any way you want by linking Charisma to attractiveness; it's an association, not a definition.  Because, of course, people wanting their "Mary Sue" characters to be beautiful in their fantasy game that they play for fun and escapism are playing the game in a way it shouldn't be played, and are engaging in badwrongfun.  How could I have missed it?  It's all so clear to me now.  I mean, it isn't like the beautiful, mysterious loner who doesn't get along well with others yet also happens to be a master swordsman and warrior isn't a staple character type of several subsets of fantasy, from the bishonen of anime and manga to the antiheroes of western comic books to the knight errant of medieval European romance.    Again, you seem to be clinging to the strawman argument that people are saying that physical attractiveness is the sole defining characteristic of Charisma, when it is merely one possible aspect of the stat.  Yes, homely or even ugly people can be highly charismatic.  Beautiful people can be uncharismatic.  Just as people with poor hand/eye coordination can have high Dexterity because they are supremely agile and have excellent balance; just as characters with high Wisdom can lack common sense or enlightenment but have extremely sharp senses and perception or strong willpower; or very Intelligent characters can have a lack of education and knowledge but have lightning fast reasoning and deductive abilities.The stats are each an average of several different elements which are collected under six generally related, broad headings for simplicity of defining a character without resorting to 32 (or whatever) separate statistics to define them.A few years back, a very good friend of mine (and one of the single best roleplaying gamers I have ever seen, both in character-acting and "thespianism", and in tactical thinking, puzzle solving, and combat effectiveness) gave the best portrayal of Charisma I have ever come across in a game, ever.  He was playing a loud, outspoken, and forceful Cleric of the god of Order and Perfection who was our party's defacto leader by the force of his personality and persuasiveness; but, during a battle with a ghost he suffered severe Charisma damage, dropping from a 17 to a 6.  His portrayal of this loss was sublime.  He became quiet.  He seldom spoke.  When asked his opinion on a course of action he said "I don't know, you decide."  He stayed in the background, refused to make decisions and waffled on commitments, and never once spoke without first being spoken to, and then only in short, noncommittal whispers.  The character was a handsome man, had always been described as such, and yet his looks didn't change a bit when his Charisma was lowered due to the supernatural damage to his soul.  His self confidence, outgoingness, leadership, and commitment was compltely drained from him, however.  It was inspiring to watch him play it out, and his portrayal of that character's Charisma damage still stands in my mind as the supreme example of what the statistic encompasses.</blockquote>

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