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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 4400472" data-attributes="member: 2020">Hey there, Jester.&nbsp; I remember you.&nbsp; Cheers there, sir.&nbsp; : )&nbsp; And, each to their own opinions.&nbsp; I hardly expect the majority of people here to agree with me.&nbsp; Nor do I demand such agreement.&nbsp; I merely espouse my opinions, and hope people will read them.&nbsp; &nbsp; LOL.&nbsp; Well put.&nbsp; Infinite Flame Wars.&nbsp; That about covers it.&nbsp; (Fortunately, Morrus and the Admins work their guts out, trying to keep the peace.&nbsp; Kudos to them.)&nbsp; I just happen to think that the ability to alter the game, set off the chain reaction that led to the Infinite Flame Wars.&nbsp; I have described this.&nbsp; It started off as an innocent little thing, that slowly escalated and mutated into something else, something undesirable.&nbsp; Remember the IR?&nbsp; That started off as a question.&nbsp; It led to a discussion.&nbsp; That led to a back and forth debate.&nbsp; That led to an impromptu game.&nbsp; And that led to a game that went on for 2 months straight (without a pause.)&nbsp; Something like that, except the result wasn't very fun - I'm not saying the IR was all fun either, but certainly the Infinite Flame War isn't much fun!&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; People seem to be naturally argumentative, yes.&nbsp; I would never debate THAT one.&nbsp; And yet ... Chess players (often known for their emotions) manage their tournaments and etiquette, and chess is a popular game.&nbsp; It is not dying.&nbsp; Why can't we do this with our game?&nbsp; I say we can.&nbsp; We can do it.&nbsp; So people are argumentative.&nbsp; So what?&nbsp; Big deal.&nbsp; We can create a core etiquette that accounts for that, protects DM and players alike, becomes a respected institution that people refuse to break.&nbsp; We can do that.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; I concede that the Internet is a riotous place.&nbsp; No debate from me on that!&nbsp; However, the anger and hatred I speak of, I've seen personally.&nbsp; I watched it develop personally, from little minor discussions, to serious arguments, to large fights, to broken friendships and broken groups, to the collapse of entire gaming clubs.&nbsp; I swear this is the truth.&nbsp; I wish it weren't so.&nbsp; I really wish I hadn't had the ... (looks ill) privilege ... of seeing these things happen within the Hobby.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Us, too, in the groups I played in when I was young.&nbsp; Same assumptions.&nbsp; All the groups I was in, shattered and died.&nbsp; The demands of adulthood took most of my friends from the Hobby, the growing anger and hostility - the slowly growing institution of intolerance and ... denouncing others - took most of the rest.&nbsp; A very few of these people, are still my friends today.&nbsp; I only wish I ... could have kept those friendships.&nbsp; &nbsp; The etiquette of Axis and Allies protected that game, in all of the games I was in.&nbsp; We never had any trouble within that game.&nbsp; The etiquette of RISK was weaker, and I saw two fist-fights in my many games.&nbsp; A lot of arguments (and the people I know preferred Axis and Allies over RISK, before very long ...)&nbsp; Monopoly?&nbsp; I only played it as a child.&nbsp; But I remember it only as a fun game.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; What can I say?&nbsp; Those look like good ideas.&nbsp; It sounds like WOTC tried very hard to do some through research.&nbsp; &nbsp; Still, what can we do without the young?&nbsp; If we cannot convince the young to join in, where are we?&nbsp; And I do not think the young are coming.&nbsp; They *should* be coming.&nbsp; They *came* before.&nbsp; Our Hobby appeals to something no other game does, or can - the limitless capacity to dream and imagine.&nbsp; But the young aren't coming.&nbsp; &nbsp; I do not know much about WarCraft.&nbsp; It doesn't sound like a game that appeals as much to dreamers and those who want to imagine.&nbsp; &nbsp; If 4E brings in the young, then it will be a Renaissance for our Hobby, and hopefully this will happen.&nbsp; I can always hope.&nbsp; We'll come back into a new age of fun, of magic, of good things.&nbsp; I want that.&nbsp; I want that very much.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; They do indeed.&nbsp; The RPGA probably has the strongest etiquette currently in use in D&amp;D.&nbsp; But the RPGA is limited by their 4 hour / 6 hour intervals (and what can they do?&nbsp; They have no choice on that.)&nbsp; This puts a serious crimp indeed in what it is, they are trying to accomplish.&nbsp; It's not their fault, but there it is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 4400472, member: 2020"] Hey there, Jester. I remember you. Cheers there, sir. : ) And, each to their own opinions. I hardly expect the majority of people here to agree with me. Nor do I demand such agreement. I merely espouse my opinions, and hope people will read them. LOL. Well put. Infinite Flame Wars. That about covers it. (Fortunately, Morrus and the Admins work their guts out, trying to keep the peace. Kudos to them.) I just happen to think that the ability to alter the game, set off the chain reaction that led to the Infinite Flame Wars. I have described this. It started off as an innocent little thing, that slowly escalated and mutated into something else, something undesirable. Remember the IR? That started off as a question. It led to a discussion. That led to a back and forth debate. That led to an impromptu game. And that led to a game that went on for 2 months straight (without a pause.) Something like that, except the result wasn't very fun - I'm not saying the IR was all fun either, but certainly the Infinite Flame War isn't much fun! People seem to be naturally argumentative, yes. I would never debate THAT one. And yet ... Chess players (often known for their emotions) manage their tournaments and etiquette, and chess is a popular game. It is not dying. Why can't we do this with our game? I say we can. We can do it. So people are argumentative. So what? Big deal. We can create a core etiquette that accounts for that, protects DM and players alike, becomes a respected institution that people refuse to break. We can do that. I concede that the Internet is a riotous place. No debate from me on that! However, the anger and hatred I speak of, I've seen personally. I watched it develop personally, from little minor discussions, to serious arguments, to large fights, to broken friendships and broken groups, to the collapse of entire gaming clubs. I swear this is the truth. I wish it weren't so. I really wish I hadn't had the ... (looks ill) privilege ... of seeing these things happen within the Hobby. Us, too, in the groups I played in when I was young. Same assumptions. All the groups I was in, shattered and died. The demands of adulthood took most of my friends from the Hobby, the growing anger and hostility - the slowly growing institution of intolerance and ... denouncing others - took most of the rest. A very few of these people, are still my friends today. I only wish I ... could have kept those friendships. The etiquette of Axis and Allies protected that game, in all of the games I was in. We never had any trouble within that game. The etiquette of RISK was weaker, and I saw two fist-fights in my many games. A lot of arguments (and the people I know preferred Axis and Allies over RISK, before very long ...) Monopoly? I only played it as a child. But I remember it only as a fun game. What can I say? Those look like good ideas. It sounds like WOTC tried very hard to do some through research. Still, what can we do without the young? If we cannot convince the young to join in, where are we? And I do not think the young are coming. They *should* be coming. They *came* before. Our Hobby appeals to something no other game does, or can - the limitless capacity to dream and imagine. But the young aren't coming. I do not know much about WarCraft. It doesn't sound like a game that appeals as much to dreamers and those who want to imagine. If 4E brings in the young, then it will be a Renaissance for our Hobby, and hopefully this will happen. I can always hope. We'll come back into a new age of fun, of magic, of good things. I want that. I want that very much. They do indeed. The RPGA probably has the strongest etiquette currently in use in D&D. But the RPGA is limited by their 4 hour / 6 hour intervals (and what can they do? They have no choice on that.) This puts a serious crimp indeed in what it is, they are trying to accomplish. It's not their fault, but there it is. [/QUOTE]

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