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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 4405798" data-attributes="member: 2020">(solemnly)&nbsp; There was a time, Ginnel, when D&amp;D was played at my Middle School, back around 1980.&nbsp; Our Hobby was a household name, and it's products were to be found in nearly every public venue.&nbsp; We were so well known that great public controversy existed about us.&nbsp; Today, I doubt many Middle School students have ever even heard the words Dungeons and Dragons, much less played the game (based on my experiences with questions to the younger crowd.)&nbsp; Same for High School students.&nbsp; Today, we do not even have a Magazine to represent us, much less much exposure in public venues.&nbsp; We are merely a memory, a ghost out of the past, to vast numbers of people who were once with us.&nbsp; I would have it back the way it was.&nbsp; I have tried to present my case for why our Hobby fell like it did.&nbsp; I conceded all the other reasons first (many of them, many very serious indeed) then explained that this, too (the intolerance, anger) was a problem.&nbsp; &nbsp; Uh ... actually, yes.&nbsp; Exactly.&nbsp; It is ok, as it were, for one Gamer to say to another:&nbsp; You are wrong!&nbsp; I am right!&nbsp; This is how it is!&nbsp; You don't know what you are talking about!&nbsp; It has become ok, acceptable behavior, for Gamers to say things a lot worse than that, to each other.&nbsp; Morrus had to ban the Edition Wars threads, for example, on this messageboard, because it *had become* ok for Gamers to say nasty things to each other.&nbsp; This kind of thing ... it is destroying the Hobby, killing it.&nbsp; It will see it dead and gone.&nbsp; It destroyed TSR, it destroyed 3rd edition, it destroyed Dragon and Dungeon, it will destroy everything that remains.&nbsp; It must be stopped.&nbsp; If it is not stopped, the Young will not avail themselves of the Hobby (why would they?&nbsp; Why step into a hotbed of hatred and anger?)&nbsp; Then, the Hobby will die.&nbsp; &nbsp; I appreciate that many people believe incorrect marketing strategy is the primary reason for the decline in the Hobby.&nbsp; I concede it is a reason.&nbsp; But I do not believe it is the main reason.&nbsp; The intolerance is the main reason, in my opinion.&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes!&nbsp; It takes a lot of work!&nbsp; Effort!&nbsp; Time!&nbsp; And so, shouldn't it's etiquette, be taken as seriously as possible?&nbsp; People's time is important.&nbsp; Their efforts are important.&nbsp; Their friendship is important.&nbsp; The DM's sacrifice in being DM is important.&nbsp; Throw that all way in arguments or bickering over rules???&nbsp; No way.&nbsp; Not with me.&nbsp; Not with anyone!&nbsp; That kind of disrespect for etiquette ... not for me!&nbsp; Or you.&nbsp; Or anyone, hopefully!&nbsp; Yet, there it is.&nbsp; Everyone has seen the arguments, the bickering, the anger, the whole Knights of the Dinner Table experience (minus the humor.)&nbsp; And that, is not respect for the etiquette.&nbsp; That kind of thing, is not to be tolerated.&nbsp; We should respect the game, and each other, in courteous and dignified etiquette.&nbsp; That's how it should be.&nbsp; That's how it should always have been.&nbsp; &nbsp; Of course!&nbsp; It is obvious.&nbsp; It is a truism.&nbsp; A truism!!&nbsp; &nbsp; Politeness pays.&nbsp; Politeness and courtesy, pay!!&nbsp; Politeness and courtesy, that's how to be!&nbsp; Politeness and courtesy, that's where it's at!&nbsp; That's the whole kit and kabottle!!!&nbsp; &nbsp; Let politeness and courtesy, be the core of the etiquette.&nbsp; You wonder what I mean by etiquette?&nbsp; Politeness!&nbsp; Courtesy!&nbsp; Respect!&nbsp; For the rules!&nbsp; For other players!&nbsp; Online!&nbsp; I cannot say it enough.&nbsp; I'd bang on the keyboard if it helped.&nbsp; Politeness!&nbsp; Courtesy!&nbsp; Respect!&nbsp; The core of the Hobby!&nbsp; The way it should be!&nbsp; Politeness!&nbsp; Courtesy!&nbsp; Respect!&nbsp; Over and over and over!&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Why should you have?&nbsp; You grew older.&nbsp; As you did, you started having older dreams and imagination.&nbsp; (grins)&nbsp; The ability to dream, the imagination, don't get worse with age.&nbsp; They become seasoned (like a well seasoned steak!)&nbsp; They don't have to wither, and they shouldn't wither.&nbsp; Obviously, your dreams and your imagination, are doing quite well, audacious and wide and encompassing.&nbsp; The way it should be.&nbsp; Why do I keep smashing at the Institution of Intolerance, Anger, and Hate?&nbsp; It kills the imagination!&nbsp; It destroys the desire to dream!&nbsp; It is frightening, intimidating, bullying.&nbsp; It hurts, it scares, it suppresses!&nbsp; You do not dare dream or imagine, if people would hurt you for it!!&nbsp; And thus, the Young - who wish to dream and imagine, and have fun doing so - are driven off.&nbsp; That is WHY this culture we have evolved, this negative culture of intolerance, drives off the Young.&nbsp; It kills the imagination, stops the dreamer.&nbsp; Let us stop the culture of intolerance.&nbsp; Kill that culture.&nbsp; Bury it.&nbsp; Bring back the imagination and dreams, and in so doing, bring back our Hobby, take it back from those&nbsp; who would sabotage it with their hate and anger!&nbsp; &nbsp; I do care about the Hobby, yes.&nbsp; I have had the bad experiences, and seen worse.&nbsp; It is not D&amp;D which is to blame.&nbsp; D&amp;D is a great game.&nbsp; I would vouch that D&amp;D is still the best roleplaying game of them all.&nbsp; But it had a flaw, and that flaw together with human nature created a problem.&nbsp; Let's fix the problem, and enjoy ourselves in the game.&nbsp; : )</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 4405798, member: 2020"] (solemnly) There was a time, Ginnel, when D&D was played at my Middle School, back around 1980. Our Hobby was a household name, and it's products were to be found in nearly every public venue. We were so well known that great public controversy existed about us. Today, I doubt many Middle School students have ever even heard the words Dungeons and Dragons, much less played the game (based on my experiences with questions to the younger crowd.) Same for High School students. Today, we do not even have a Magazine to represent us, much less much exposure in public venues. We are merely a memory, a ghost out of the past, to vast numbers of people who were once with us. I would have it back the way it was. I have tried to present my case for why our Hobby fell like it did. I conceded all the other reasons first (many of them, many very serious indeed) then explained that this, too (the intolerance, anger) was a problem. Uh ... actually, yes. Exactly. It is ok, as it were, for one Gamer to say to another: You are wrong! I am right! This is how it is! You don't know what you are talking about! It has become ok, acceptable behavior, for Gamers to say things a lot worse than that, to each other. Morrus had to ban the Edition Wars threads, for example, on this messageboard, because it *had become* ok for Gamers to say nasty things to each other. This kind of thing ... it is destroying the Hobby, killing it. It will see it dead and gone. It destroyed TSR, it destroyed 3rd edition, it destroyed Dragon and Dungeon, it will destroy everything that remains. It must be stopped. If it is not stopped, the Young will not avail themselves of the Hobby (why would they? Why step into a hotbed of hatred and anger?) Then, the Hobby will die. I appreciate that many people believe incorrect marketing strategy is the primary reason for the decline in the Hobby. I concede it is a reason. But I do not believe it is the main reason. The intolerance is the main reason, in my opinion. Yes! It takes a lot of work! Effort! Time! And so, shouldn't it's etiquette, be taken as seriously as possible? People's time is important. Their efforts are important. Their friendship is important. The DM's sacrifice in being DM is important. Throw that all way in arguments or bickering over rules??? No way. Not with me. Not with anyone! That kind of disrespect for etiquette ... not for me! Or you. Or anyone, hopefully! Yet, there it is. Everyone has seen the arguments, the bickering, the anger, the whole Knights of the Dinner Table experience (minus the humor.) And that, is not respect for the etiquette. That kind of thing, is not to be tolerated. We should respect the game, and each other, in courteous and dignified etiquette. That's how it should be. That's how it should always have been. Of course! It is obvious. It is a truism. A truism!! Politeness pays. Politeness and courtesy, pay!! Politeness and courtesy, that's how to be! Politeness and courtesy, that's where it's at! That's the whole kit and kabottle!!! Let politeness and courtesy, be the core of the etiquette. You wonder what I mean by etiquette? Politeness! Courtesy! Respect! For the rules! For other players! Online! I cannot say it enough. I'd bang on the keyboard if it helped. Politeness! Courtesy! Respect! The core of the Hobby! The way it should be! Politeness! Courtesy! Respect! Over and over and over! Why should you have? You grew older. As you did, you started having older dreams and imagination. (grins) The ability to dream, the imagination, don't get worse with age. They become seasoned (like a well seasoned steak!) They don't have to wither, and they shouldn't wither. Obviously, your dreams and your imagination, are doing quite well, audacious and wide and encompassing. The way it should be. Why do I keep smashing at the Institution of Intolerance, Anger, and Hate? It kills the imagination! It destroys the desire to dream! It is frightening, intimidating, bullying. It hurts, it scares, it suppresses! You do not dare dream or imagine, if people would hurt you for it!! And thus, the Young - who wish to dream and imagine, and have fun doing so - are driven off. That is WHY this culture we have evolved, this negative culture of intolerance, drives off the Young. It kills the imagination, stops the dreamer. Let us stop the culture of intolerance. Kill that culture. Bury it. Bring back the imagination and dreams, and in so doing, bring back our Hobby, take it back from those who would sabotage it with their hate and anger! I do care about the Hobby, yes. I have had the bad experiences, and seen worse. It is not D&D which is to blame. D&D is a great game. I would vouch that D&D is still the best roleplaying game of them all. But it had a flaw, and that flaw together with human nature created a problem. Let's fix the problem, and enjoy ourselves in the game. : ) [/QUOTE]

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