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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 4405826" data-attributes="member: 2020">I acknowledge that computer games, internet games, have been a serious blow for the Hobby.&nbsp; World of Warcraft, in particular, seems to have struck a heavy blow against Dungeons and Dragons, based on the words of the D&amp;D Brand Manager himself.&nbsp; I acknowledge the difficulties of getting a group together (much less maintaining a regular schedule of play.)&nbsp; Heck, I'll go further, and acknowledge that these difficulties were so truly tremendous that you have to wonder (I do) how Dungeons and Dragons ever got off the ground in the first place.&nbsp; How Dragon ever got started.&nbsp; How TSR ever got started.&nbsp; I mean, they were swimming against a very powerful current of one very big river.&nbsp; And yet, they did it, and D&amp;D became a household name (as later, the Magic card game did, and as World of Warcraft is now.)&nbsp; Now, you said you did not think D&amp;D was dying among the Younger Generation.&nbsp; Are you saying that you think D&amp;D simply never caught on with the Younger Generation, so there are no Young for the Hobby to lose?&nbsp; Or that those Young who play in the Hobby, are sticking with us?&nbsp; The first case is bleak indeed:&nbsp; there is no future without the Young.&nbsp; The second case?&nbsp; We need a lot more Young.&nbsp; We need to yank them back from all those computer games.&nbsp; And we have a tool for doing that, which is more powerful than all the computer games and internet games and card games put together:&nbsp; the desire to dream, the will to imagine, the joy of imagining.&nbsp; Only roleplaying games, like Dungeons and Dragons, can fully take advantage of these things, allow people to express dreams and imagination in the way they do, in roleplaying games.&nbsp; The will to dream, the desire to imagine, is NOT a passing fad!&nbsp; It is not the Game of the Day.&nbsp; It is not the desire of the moment.&nbsp; It is a permanent feature, around as long as people are around.&nbsp; If we can once more inspire people to come dream, come imagine, in our Hobby, our Hobby will last.&nbsp; It will be sustained by something that cannot be stopped, cannot be contained, something with infinite power, something with infinite supply.&nbsp; (It's like that Krell machine:&nbsp; it can never be shut down, never be turned off.)&nbsp; OUR hobby is the one with the future, the infinite future, the future based on dreams and imagination.&nbsp; As powerful as those computer games seem, what could they possibly have on that?&nbsp; They are minor asides, compared to the thing that powers our Hobby.&nbsp; Now, that is not optimism, it's the truth.&nbsp; But if people want to let a bunch of petty intolerance and anger drown out the dreaming, the imagination, long enough to kill the Hobby, then I cannot stop them.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I hope it evolves into Virtual Reality one day (when VR is truly available.)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rules-debate is not harmful.&nbsp; IF it is taken to denunciation of other people, then it is harmful.&nbsp; That is what happened.&nbsp; It wasn't harmful to say 'I think that should be a bonus of +2, not +4'&nbsp; &nbsp; It was when people said 'That player is a munchkin, because he goes with the +4' then it became harmful.&nbsp; &nbsp; (sighs)&nbsp; &nbsp; That's a big philosophical one, one worthy of entire books worth of posts, and not just a single thread.&nbsp; I cannot really address it.&nbsp; My regrets and apologies.&nbsp; All I can say is:&nbsp; Conflict isn't good if it DESTROYS the product being fought over (a radioactive garbage dump, for example, isn't the kind of real estate you'd want to live&nbsp; in.)&nbsp; &nbsp; (chuckles)&nbsp; The Young.&nbsp;&nbsp; Ah yes.&nbsp; The Rebels.&nbsp; Uproar Personified.&nbsp; (Etiquette?&nbsp; You mean, as in:&nbsp; I KILL THE MONSTER, AND I PULP IT.&nbsp; I PULP IT, DO YOU HEAR ME?&nbsp; I PULP IT.&nbsp; AND THEN I PULP IT SOME MORE.&nbsp; AND TAKE EVERY LAST COPPER PIECE.&nbsp; DO YOU HEAR ME?&nbsp; EVERY LAST, LAST COPPER PIECE.&nbsp; MINE, MINE, MINE!!!&nbsp; (Yes, I DMed for that player ...))&nbsp; I must wonder if the word Etiquette is not the antithesis of the word Young?&nbsp; And have I not myself stated that the Young were the source of our Hobby?&nbsp; It was us.&nbsp; We were the Young.&nbsp; We were those players, created those tables.&nbsp; &nbsp; It is a paradox.&nbsp; The Young are the future, I am saying etiquette is crucial, but the Young and etiquette do not mix very well, to understate things.&nbsp; I don't have the answer to the paradox.&nbsp; If I did, I would let you know.&nbsp; If I did, they'd probably make me CEO of WOTC.&nbsp; LOL.&nbsp; The CEO of Hasbro.&nbsp; I'd have my own following.&nbsp; Be bigger than Mr. Gygax himself.&nbsp; All I can say is that, games like Chess, Axis and Allies, RISK, and yes D&amp;D are played by the Young, and with success.&nbsp; I'll never know exactly *how* they do it, but they do it.&nbsp; But for older players, etiquette is relevant.&nbsp; Etiquette is important.&nbsp; Etiquette is crucial.&nbsp; I doubt anyone would dispute that (only dispute, what kind of etiquette, is needed.)&nbsp; &nbsp; I just hope that evolution includes a future D&amp;D.&nbsp;&nbsp; Yes, I do think ENWorld's scarcity of money (which Morrus had) was a bad sign.&nbsp; Yes, the internet is uproarous (to greatly understate the situation.)&nbsp; I base my observations mostly upon what I saw in actual gaming, and only in small amount on what I've read online.&nbsp; The most important things I've seen online were news related, not the nature of actual posts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 4405826, member: 2020"] I acknowledge that computer games, internet games, have been a serious blow for the Hobby. World of Warcraft, in particular, seems to have struck a heavy blow against Dungeons and Dragons, based on the words of the D&D Brand Manager himself. I acknowledge the difficulties of getting a group together (much less maintaining a regular schedule of play.) Heck, I'll go further, and acknowledge that these difficulties were so truly tremendous that you have to wonder (I do) how Dungeons and Dragons ever got off the ground in the first place. How Dragon ever got started. How TSR ever got started. I mean, they were swimming against a very powerful current of one very big river. And yet, they did it, and D&D became a household name (as later, the Magic card game did, and as World of Warcraft is now.) Now, you said you did not think D&D was dying among the Younger Generation. Are you saying that you think D&D simply never caught on with the Younger Generation, so there are no Young for the Hobby to lose? Or that those Young who play in the Hobby, are sticking with us? The first case is bleak indeed: there is no future without the Young. The second case? We need a lot more Young. We need to yank them back from all those computer games. And we have a tool for doing that, which is more powerful than all the computer games and internet games and card games put together: the desire to dream, the will to imagine, the joy of imagining. Only roleplaying games, like Dungeons and Dragons, can fully take advantage of these things, allow people to express dreams and imagination in the way they do, in roleplaying games. The will to dream, the desire to imagine, is NOT a passing fad! It is not the Game of the Day. It is not the desire of the moment. It is a permanent feature, around as long as people are around. If we can once more inspire people to come dream, come imagine, in our Hobby, our Hobby will last. It will be sustained by something that cannot be stopped, cannot be contained, something with infinite power, something with infinite supply. (It's like that Krell machine: it can never be shut down, never be turned off.) OUR hobby is the one with the future, the infinite future, the future based on dreams and imagination. As powerful as those computer games seem, what could they possibly have on that? They are minor asides, compared to the thing that powers our Hobby. Now, that is not optimism, it's the truth. But if people want to let a bunch of petty intolerance and anger drown out the dreaming, the imagination, long enough to kill the Hobby, then I cannot stop them. I hope it evolves into Virtual Reality one day (when VR is truly available.) Rules-debate is not harmful. IF it is taken to denunciation of other people, then it is harmful. That is what happened. It wasn't harmful to say 'I think that should be a bonus of +2, not +4' It was when people said 'That player is a munchkin, because he goes with the +4' then it became harmful. (sighs) That's a big philosophical one, one worthy of entire books worth of posts, and not just a single thread. I cannot really address it. My regrets and apologies. All I can say is: Conflict isn't good if it DESTROYS the product being fought over (a radioactive garbage dump, for example, isn't the kind of real estate you'd want to live in.) (chuckles) The Young. Ah yes. The Rebels. Uproar Personified. (Etiquette? You mean, as in: I KILL THE MONSTER, AND I PULP IT. I PULP IT, DO YOU HEAR ME? I PULP IT. AND THEN I PULP IT SOME MORE. AND TAKE EVERY LAST COPPER PIECE. DO YOU HEAR ME? EVERY LAST, LAST COPPER PIECE. MINE, MINE, MINE!!! (Yes, I DMed for that player ...)) I must wonder if the word Etiquette is not the antithesis of the word Young? And have I not myself stated that the Young were the source of our Hobby? It was us. We were the Young. We were those players, created those tables. It is a paradox. The Young are the future, I am saying etiquette is crucial, but the Young and etiquette do not mix very well, to understate things. I don't have the answer to the paradox. If I did, I would let you know. If I did, they'd probably make me CEO of WOTC. LOL. The CEO of Hasbro. I'd have my own following. Be bigger than Mr. Gygax himself. All I can say is that, games like Chess, Axis and Allies, RISK, and yes D&D are played by the Young, and with success. I'll never know exactly *how* they do it, but they do it. But for older players, etiquette is relevant. Etiquette is important. Etiquette is crucial. I doubt anyone would dispute that (only dispute, what kind of etiquette, is needed.) I just hope that evolution includes a future D&D. Yes, I do think ENWorld's scarcity of money (which Morrus had) was a bad sign. Yes, the internet is uproarous (to greatly understate the situation.) I base my observations mostly upon what I saw in actual gaming, and only in small amount on what I've read online. The most important things I've seen online were news related, not the nature of actual posts. [/QUOTE]

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