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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dungeoneer" data-source="post: 6338540" data-attributes="member: 91777">I think this conversation would go a lot smoother if you stopped stating your opinion and preferences as fact. It's not a 'fact' that Friar Tuck doesn't count as a monk. It's not a 'fact' that most people think of him using a sword. It's not a 'fact' that the 'monk' in D&D is Eastern-themed. And it's certainly not a 'fact' that fighting monks can't be a trope in Western fantasy/folklore/literature. You obviously have strong opinions on all of these points, but others could feel different, and clearly do.Here are some examples of ACTUAL facts:- There were monks in Western Europe from at least the 1st century AD.- The Teutonic Knights were recognized by the Pope under the 'Order of Augustine' aka they were fighting monks.- The Knights Hospitaller were monks charged with defending the holy land and which would escort pilgrims while armed.- The opening of the Jesuit charter begins, "Whoever desires to serve as a soldier of god..." - Founder Ignatious Loyola was a knight and is the patron saint of soldiers. - There were monks in D&D starting with the 1975 Blackmoor supplement.- The monk class predates both the bard and the druid. - The monk appeared in the first edition of the Player's Handbook.It is my OPINION that the monk is about as core as you can get. It is my OPINION that a fighting monk archetype has some basis in the western cultural canon. It is my OPINION that talking about 'history' in a game that involves armed dwarven clerics is ridiculous. But it is also my opinion that at your table, you can ban monks. You can also ban elves with pointy ears. Just don't ask me to play.</blockquote>

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