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<blockquote data-quote="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost" data-source="post: 4782519" data-attributes="member: 4720">I agree with your premise, but I might add that it's not what anyone should expect in real life either.&nbsp; Trip spam builds aren't going to work in real life the way they do in 3e.&nbsp; Not against anyone remotely competent, anyway.And in real life, grappling is WAY easier and more effective than it was in 3e.The whole &quot;4e doesn't model realistic combat as well as 3e did&quot; meme is patently ridiculous.&nbsp; Neither of them do it at all well, and 4e has as many strengths as weaknesses in this regard, relative to 3e, IMO.For example, to lean on the ridonkulous trip monkey of 3e a little more.... a once-per-encounter trip effect is WAY more realistic than spamming it effectively, in that your opponent will pick up quickly that you are a one-trick pony and prevent you from using it as well FAST.&nbsp; If you want to be a trip monkey in real life, you would have to learn multiple techniques to put someone on the floor (read: learn additional powers that give a knock-down effect).That aside, I agree with the premise overall.... and if given the choice of simulating an action movie or simulating archaic real life combat that no one at the table has any experience with (and no one designing the game had experience with), I'll go with modeling the action movie every day of the week.&nbsp; If nothing else, people at the table will have shared experience to draw from when describing their kewl moves.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost, post: 4782519, member: 4720"] I agree with your premise, but I might add that it's not what anyone should expect in real life either. Trip spam builds aren't going to work in real life the way they do in 3e. Not against anyone remotely competent, anyway. And in real life, grappling is WAY easier and more effective than it was in 3e. The whole "4e doesn't model realistic combat as well as 3e did" meme is patently ridiculous. Neither of them do it at all well, and 4e has as many strengths as weaknesses in this regard, relative to 3e, IMO. For example, to lean on the ridonkulous trip monkey of 3e a little more.... a once-per-encounter trip effect is WAY more realistic than spamming it effectively, in that your opponent will pick up quickly that you are a one-trick pony and prevent you from using it as well FAST. If you want to be a trip monkey in real life, you would have to learn multiple techniques to put someone on the floor (read: learn additional powers that give a knock-down effect). That aside, I agree with the premise overall.... and if given the choice of simulating an action movie or simulating archaic real life combat that no one at the table has any experience with (and no one designing the game had experience with), I'll go with modeling the action movie every day of the week. If nothing else, people at the table will have shared experience to draw from when describing their kewl moves. [/QUOTE]

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