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General Tabletop Discussion
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The "Powergamers (Min/maxer)" vs "Alpha Gamers" vs "Role Play Gamers" vs "GM" balance mismatch "problem(s)"
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7279606" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Nod. In that sense, 'Stormwind Fallacy' is just a cute hobby-specific label for the excluded-middle/false-dilemma/etc informal fallacy.</p><p></p><p>Just someone putting fluff first. ;P</p><p></p><p>I think I see some rhetorical slight of hand, in that bolded bit. Aren't you just coming back around to asserting that two perfectly compatible things - 'roleplaying'* and 'optimization' are incompatible by nature? That they must conflict, even if only 'eventually?' </p><p></p><p></p><p> Or, to put it another way, is the player convinced that the "optimal" build choice can never be taken for fluff/flavor reasons... </p><p></p><p>;P</p><p></p><p>You can just not care about fluff/flavor and make choices based only on some mechanical goal, and make ridiculous fluff choices.</p><p></p><p>You can be totally into the minutia of your character's fluff, and make terrible build choices.</p><p></p><p>You can have a very definite concept, and make choices to optimally model that concept mechanically and thus realize it in play to the fullest extent possible in the system. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The better the design of the system - the more intuitive, balanced, consistent, clear & flavorful the game - the closer the character produced by each of those three approaches will be to the others. In a hypothetical 'perfect' system, all three attitudes could yield the exact same character.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>* another big, bright, violently-waving red flag in any of these false dichotomies is if the extreme on one side of the excluded middle gets labeled 'Roleplaying.' It's in the context of an RPG, it's all roleplaying.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7279606, member: 996"] Nod. In that sense, 'Stormwind Fallacy' is just a cute hobby-specific label for the excluded-middle/false-dilemma/etc informal fallacy. Just someone putting fluff first. ;P I think I see some rhetorical slight of hand, in that bolded bit. Aren't you just coming back around to asserting that two perfectly compatible things - 'roleplaying'* and 'optimization' are incompatible by nature? That they must conflict, even if only 'eventually?' Or, to put it another way, is the player convinced that the "optimal" build choice can never be taken for fluff/flavor reasons... ;P You can just not care about fluff/flavor and make choices based only on some mechanical goal, and make ridiculous fluff choices. You can be totally into the minutia of your character's fluff, and make terrible build choices. You can have a very definite concept, and make choices to optimally model that concept mechanically and thus realize it in play to the fullest extent possible in the system. The better the design of the system - the more intuitive, balanced, consistent, clear & flavorful the game - the closer the character produced by each of those three approaches will be to the others. In a hypothetical 'perfect' system, all three attitudes could yield the exact same character. * another big, bright, violently-waving red flag in any of these false dichotomies is if the extreme on one side of the excluded middle gets labeled 'Roleplaying.' It's in the context of an RPG, it's all roleplaying. [/QUOTE]
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