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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7718984" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>That is an inherent part of roleplaying to me, so I find Fate's system more transparent and pragmatic about the realities of roleplaying, particularly that the roleplaying game is a game with imperfect character-/world-knowledge. When I create a character and their backstory, it's a declaration of how the world <em>is</em> and these are often elements that help build or refine a world, especially a homebrew. Much as pemerton says, as a player my characters in D&D (and other systems) have often declared how the world works. When I say that my character was a slave, then I'm saying that slavery exists in this world. When I "invent" a saint for deity for my cleric's religion in someone's homebrew, then I am effectively declaring how the world works. </p><p></p><p>And? So what? Shouldn't that discrepancy between player- and character-voluntarism always be the case if one is roleplaying? We can also flip your statement around a bit, primarily for the sake of emphasis, by pointing out the other obvious counterpoint: what the character wants is not necessarily what the player wants. There are in-game roleplaying (or even mechanical) choices that make sense in-character that the player knows are suboptimal (for their character, the party, or task/conflict resolution) and so they rationalize ways for their character to avoid making those (ir)rational in-character choices. I would prefer having this reality transparent rather than arrogantly trying to deceive myelf that I am above such things. One of things that I appreciate about Fate points (and similar mechanics) is that they provide a player incentive to make suboptimal choices that are otherwise more appropriate in-character choices than the optimal choices that the player may recognize and gravitate towards. (It essentially provides a character-oriented corrective for a player-bias.) </p><p></p><p>Correction: it's a premise that doesn't really work for <strong>FOR YOU</strong>. But as a blanket statement, the assertion that this doesn't work from an RP perspective reeks of a veiled "Not True Roleplaying" fallacy. </p><p></p><p>Except, that's not true at all. That aspect does mean something in Fate. He is the "World's Greatest Detective" - as your aspects are always true - but even Batman gets stumped and occasionally outclassed. He preemptively put his efforts elsewhere - that mook fight took a lot out of him - and then he gets blindsided by the twist, because he ran out of steam. He is still persistently referred to in the DC Universe as "the World's Greatest Detective," and people treat him as such. Why? Because over the span of an adventure/campaign, your character should consistently outclass that other character in being the better detective. It's not about being the World's Greatest Detective <em><strong>all-the-time</strong></em>, but about being the World's Greatest Detective <strong><em>overall</em></strong>. </p><p></p><p>I don't know your roleplaying games of choice, but do you balk at "hero points," "inspiration dice," or other mechanics in D&D (and other games) that are fundamentally player-power? I'm reminded, for example, of the 5e divination wizard who can their roll or the roll of others by replacing a die roll with one they have already rolled. You can dress that in a pretty ribbon and call that character power, but that's as much player power as fate points. To me, spending a Fate point re-roll or provide a bonus because it stems from invoking an aspect of my character. It's an extension of a character's inspiration, determination, and insight that pushes them to overcome because the task is just too important.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 7718984, member: 5142"] That is an inherent part of roleplaying to me, so I find Fate's system more transparent and pragmatic about the realities of roleplaying, particularly that the roleplaying game is a game with imperfect character-/world-knowledge. When I create a character and their backstory, it's a declaration of how the world [I]is[/I] and these are often elements that help build or refine a world, especially a homebrew. Much as pemerton says, as a player my characters in D&D (and other systems) have often declared how the world works. When I say that my character was a slave, then I'm saying that slavery exists in this world. When I "invent" a saint for deity for my cleric's religion in someone's homebrew, then I am effectively declaring how the world works. And? So what? Shouldn't that discrepancy between player- and character-voluntarism always be the case if one is roleplaying? We can also flip your statement around a bit, primarily for the sake of emphasis, by pointing out the other obvious counterpoint: what the character wants is not necessarily what the player wants. There are in-game roleplaying (or even mechanical) choices that make sense in-character that the player knows are suboptimal (for their character, the party, or task/conflict resolution) and so they rationalize ways for their character to avoid making those (ir)rational in-character choices. I would prefer having this reality transparent rather than arrogantly trying to deceive myelf that I am above such things. One of things that I appreciate about Fate points (and similar mechanics) is that they provide a player incentive to make suboptimal choices that are otherwise more appropriate in-character choices than the optimal choices that the player may recognize and gravitate towards. (It essentially provides a character-oriented corrective for a player-bias.) Correction: it's a premise that doesn't really work for [B]FOR YOU[/B]. But as a blanket statement, the assertion that this doesn't work from an RP perspective reeks of a veiled "Not True Roleplaying" fallacy. Except, that's not true at all. That aspect does mean something in Fate. He is the "World's Greatest Detective" - as your aspects are always true - but even Batman gets stumped and occasionally outclassed. He preemptively put his efforts elsewhere - that mook fight took a lot out of him - and then he gets blindsided by the twist, because he ran out of steam. He is still persistently referred to in the DC Universe as "the World's Greatest Detective," and people treat him as such. Why? Because over the span of an adventure/campaign, your character should consistently outclass that other character in being the better detective. It's not about being the World's Greatest Detective [I][B]all-the-time[/B][/I], but about being the World's Greatest Detective [B][I]overall[/I][/B]. I don't know your roleplaying games of choice, but do you balk at "hero points," "inspiration dice," or other mechanics in D&D (and other games) that are fundamentally player-power? I'm reminded, for example, of the 5e divination wizard who can their roll or the roll of others by replacing a die roll with one they have already rolled. You can dress that in a pretty ribbon and call that character power, but that's as much player power as fate points. To me, spending a Fate point re-roll or provide a bonus because it stems from invoking an aspect of my character. It's an extension of a character's inspiration, determination, and insight that pushes them to overcome because the task is just too important. [/QUOTE]
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