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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The problem I've having with 4e.
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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 4101556" data-attributes="member: 32164"><p>The blade was more than sharp enough to do damage. If you don't believe me, stand in front of someone and let them swing a non-sharpened greatsword at your head with two hands. Then come back and tell me it can't injure you.</p><p></p><p>I wasn't injured because of luck. For whatever reason, it was a glancing blow. Hit points are about providing a way for that kind of "luck" to be systematic and predictable enough that you can play a game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Boromir is also dead. Sorry, thanks for playing.</p><p></p><p>Inigo, stabbed in the guts or not, is running around, dispatching people and jumping out a window onto a waiting horse.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying the character who uses healing surges is somehow magically "uninjured." What I am saying is that he is not, in the least bit, combat-impaired. He may have scratches (healing nicely thank you), bruises, or even a couple deep cuts that have been bandaged, cauterized, or what have you. He probably can't keep doing this for weeks on end (that's part of what I think between adventure "downtime" is for). But for the course of the single story of one adventure, he can recover sufficiently to be considered "healed" or "at full strength."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because most people don't care whether hit points represent fatigue or actual cuts and bruises. What matters is that the character is at risk of death each and every time he enters a fight. What the character knows, in the end, is that a single arrow (or sword blow) <em>can</em> kill him. On the other hand, if he's a hero, it probably won't be the first arrow.</p><p></p><p>I'll say it again - you want them to tell you what hit points are. But, for purposes of the game, they're <em>deliberately abstract.</em> Hit points represent your ability to turn what ought to be a lethal blow into a nonlethal one. Similarly, second wind and healing surges represent your ability to recover from seemingly serious injuries. That means you don't REALLY know what's happened until the dice resolve the situation.</p><p></p><p>Was that hit serious? I don't know...what was the outcome? Was it a critical hit that reduced the character to negative hit points? Then it probably was, but maybe it just looked really impressive (causing a spray of blood, striking the character in the face, or whatever). The point is that until the situation is resolved, it's hard to be sure. If it was a serious blow and the PC needed to be stabilized by the party medic, maybe he got a head wound that was bleeding profusely (therefore life-threatening). However, once it's been staunched, how hurt is the PC really?</p><p></p><p>Like John McClane or Indiana Jones, the PCs might have a lot of really showy injuries, but it doesn't seem to affect their fighting strength much, especially once they get some time to rest. On the other hand, whenever they're ground down like this, you really get the sense that they're in serious danger of losing their lives.</p><p></p><p>If the heroes finish the adventure pristine and uninjured, and they were never "close to death," it just doesn't seem like they had to <em>work</em> for their victory. That's why hit points are left deliberately abstract enough that you can interpret the characters as having a host of injuries, none of which are, in the end, serious. It maintains dramatic tension as well as keeping suspense <em>in the game</em>.</p><p></p><p>But hey, it doesn't work for everyone.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 4101556, member: 32164"] The blade was more than sharp enough to do damage. If you don't believe me, stand in front of someone and let them swing a non-sharpened greatsword at your head with two hands. Then come back and tell me it can't injure you. I wasn't injured because of luck. For whatever reason, it was a glancing blow. Hit points are about providing a way for that kind of "luck" to be systematic and predictable enough that you can play a game. Boromir is also dead. Sorry, thanks for playing. Inigo, stabbed in the guts or not, is running around, dispatching people and jumping out a window onto a waiting horse. I'm not saying the character who uses healing surges is somehow magically "uninjured." What I am saying is that he is not, in the least bit, combat-impaired. He may have scratches (healing nicely thank you), bruises, or even a couple deep cuts that have been bandaged, cauterized, or what have you. He probably can't keep doing this for weeks on end (that's part of what I think between adventure "downtime" is for). But for the course of the single story of one adventure, he can recover sufficiently to be considered "healed" or "at full strength." Because most people don't care whether hit points represent fatigue or actual cuts and bruises. What matters is that the character is at risk of death each and every time he enters a fight. What the character knows, in the end, is that a single arrow (or sword blow) [i]can[/i] kill him. On the other hand, if he's a hero, it probably won't be the first arrow. I'll say it again - you want them to tell you what hit points are. But, for purposes of the game, they're [i]deliberately abstract.[/i] Hit points represent your ability to turn what ought to be a lethal blow into a nonlethal one. Similarly, second wind and healing surges represent your ability to recover from seemingly serious injuries. That means you don't REALLY know what's happened until the dice resolve the situation. Was that hit serious? I don't know...what was the outcome? Was it a critical hit that reduced the character to negative hit points? Then it probably was, but maybe it just looked really impressive (causing a spray of blood, striking the character in the face, or whatever). The point is that until the situation is resolved, it's hard to be sure. If it was a serious blow and the PC needed to be stabilized by the party medic, maybe he got a head wound that was bleeding profusely (therefore life-threatening). However, once it's been staunched, how hurt is the PC really? Like John McClane or Indiana Jones, the PCs might have a lot of really showy injuries, but it doesn't seem to affect their fighting strength much, especially once they get some time to rest. On the other hand, whenever they're ground down like this, you really get the sense that they're in serious danger of losing their lives. If the heroes finish the adventure pristine and uninjured, and they were never "close to death," it just doesn't seem like they had to [i]work[/i] for their victory. That's why hit points are left deliberately abstract enough that you can interpret the characters as having a host of injuries, none of which are, in the end, serious. It maintains dramatic tension as well as keeping suspense [i]in the game[/i]. But hey, it doesn't work for everyone. [/QUOTE]
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