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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Problem of Balance (and how to get rid of it)
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<blockquote data-quote="yesnomu" data-source="post: 4655146" data-attributes="member: 77306"><p>Sure, quick rolls where some characters are better than others I don't have a problem with. It's things like entire fights are decided by the spellcasters' first rounds, or a dungeon of traps that only the Rogue is equipped to disarm, that bother me. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Of course the GM needs to cater to players, but this should be as easy as possible-- you don't want to force every session to have an <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EigenPlot" target="_blank">Eigen Plot</a> just so the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway" target="_blank">poorly-balanced character</a> can work. Ideally, a new GM could just throw together some cool ideas they have, and have it work out reasonably balanced. A better GM will always give the players a better experience, but the game system should make it as easy as possible.</p><p></p><p>Plus, the lazie--um, more time-pressed GMs will often run published adventures, which run much more smoothly if everyone is able to contribute.</p><p></p><p> </p><p>Huh? I'm talking about 3.5's system here, the Bard and the Druid. They were both supposed to be generalists, but the Druid could do everything well (simultaneously!) and the Bard couldn't do anything well. They're a perfect example of why generalists are extremely hard to get right in a class-based game, both in and out-of-combat. Specialization is easier to design, and leads to stronger teamwork to cover weaknesses (see my TF2 example earlier).</p><p></p><p></p><p>See before, everyone contributes in different ways. Sometimes there's a pit the Fighter's strong enough to jump across easily and tie a rope down, sometimes there're ancient runes the Wizard can cast Comprehend Languages and read, sometimes there's a nasty trap the Ranger spots and the Rogue disarms.</p><p></p><p> </p><p>Lanefan was discussing "round-to-round" balance, and I was answering likewise. In combat, the different roles contribute to success in different ways.</p><p></p><p>Fighters get fewer skills because fighters have always gotten fewer skills. Roughly, the more HP you get, the fewer skills. I don't like it personally, and I think out-of-combat balance needs to be worked on. Generally, though, all characters in a party will have some skills they excel at, which helps everyone shine at different points. See the noncombat examples above.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="yesnomu, post: 4655146, member: 77306"] Sure, quick rolls where some characters are better than others I don't have a problem with. It's things like entire fights are decided by the spellcasters' first rounds, or a dungeon of traps that only the Rogue is equipped to disarm, that bother me. Of course the GM needs to cater to players, but this should be as easy as possible-- you don't want to force every session to have an [URL="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EigenPlot"]Eigen Plot[/URL] just so the [URL="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway"]poorly-balanced character[/URL] can work. Ideally, a new GM could just throw together some cool ideas they have, and have it work out reasonably balanced. A better GM will always give the players a better experience, but the game system should make it as easy as possible. Plus, the lazie--um, more time-pressed GMs will often run published adventures, which run much more smoothly if everyone is able to contribute. Huh? I'm talking about 3.5's system here, the Bard and the Druid. They were both supposed to be generalists, but the Druid could do everything well (simultaneously!) and the Bard couldn't do anything well. They're a perfect example of why generalists are extremely hard to get right in a class-based game, both in and out-of-combat. Specialization is easier to design, and leads to stronger teamwork to cover weaknesses (see my TF2 example earlier). See before, everyone contributes in different ways. Sometimes there's a pit the Fighter's strong enough to jump across easily and tie a rope down, sometimes there're ancient runes the Wizard can cast Comprehend Languages and read, sometimes there's a nasty trap the Ranger spots and the Rogue disarms. Lanefan was discussing "round-to-round" balance, and I was answering likewise. In combat, the different roles contribute to success in different ways. Fighters get fewer skills because fighters have always gotten fewer skills. Roughly, the more HP you get, the fewer skills. I don't like it personally, and I think out-of-combat balance needs to be worked on. Generally, though, all characters in a party will have some skills they excel at, which helps everyone shine at different points. See the noncombat examples above. [/QUOTE]
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