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<blockquote data-quote="Badwe" data-source="post: 4655299" data-attributes="member: 61762">Exploder: the difference between inter-player balance and balance of the party vs. outer threats is something that the WoW players of the world have cried many millions of pages about.&nbsp; I doubt even 4e could balance a fight between a wizard and a fighter.It was said, in response to my post, that interesting decisions are possible without game balance because in an RPG you can make any decision possible.&nbsp; I disagree. First, if a player is merely choosing between options specifically enumerated in a rulebook, each of the choices must, to some degree, seem like an option.&nbsp; If one feat or one spell or one class is so unequivocally better than its equivalents, there is no choice.&nbsp; There isn't any choice because the only real choice, weather it is in regards to combat, utility, skill checks, roleplaying, whatever, is weather to be good at it, or weak.&nbsp; To actually suggest that the majority of players will choose to to be weak flies in the face of gaming theory.&nbsp; Other people have already offered examples such as dual wielding where everyone able to does so.&nbsp; This is not interesting or creative.Furthermore, the example of slogging away at a solo with at-wills on a plain battlefield is just a reskin.&nbsp; slogging away at a high CR, high HD monster with basic attacks because the wizard is out of spells on a plain battlefield is the 3e equivalent and is no different.&nbsp; Don't blame poor encounter design on 4th ed.&nbsp; Balance, in some form, is so integral to creating meaningful decisions, challenges, tradeoffs, and tactical scenarios, that to imagine wanting to actively discard them is beyond me.&nbsp; Many posters offering systems to eschew balance have highlighted how fantasy novels don't need to be balanced, but the only balance they're really evading is PNP RPG balance.&nbsp; A novel must still have character development, plot progression, twists, drama, etc. in order to be a successful novel.&nbsp; You might as well ask why a benchpress needs the same weight on both sides when a pulley doesn't (hint: it's because they are both accomplishing different tasks).Anyways, my befuddlement aside, the reality is your best option is to switch to older, less balanced editions of D&amp;D.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Badwe, post: 4655299, member: 61762"] Exploder: the difference between inter-player balance and balance of the party vs. outer threats is something that the WoW players of the world have cried many millions of pages about. I doubt even 4e could balance a fight between a wizard and a fighter. It was said, in response to my post, that interesting decisions are possible without game balance because in an RPG you can make any decision possible. I disagree. First, if a player is merely choosing between options specifically enumerated in a rulebook, each of the choices must, to some degree, seem like an option. If one feat or one spell or one class is so unequivocally better than its equivalents, there is no choice. There isn't any choice because the only real choice, weather it is in regards to combat, utility, skill checks, roleplaying, whatever, is weather to be good at it, or weak. To actually suggest that the majority of players will choose to to be weak flies in the face of gaming theory. Other people have already offered examples such as dual wielding where everyone able to does so. This is not interesting or creative. Furthermore, the example of slogging away at a solo with at-wills on a plain battlefield is just a reskin. slogging away at a high CR, high HD monster with basic attacks because the wizard is out of spells on a plain battlefield is the 3e equivalent and is no different. Don't blame poor encounter design on 4th ed. Balance, in some form, is so integral to creating meaningful decisions, challenges, tradeoffs, and tactical scenarios, that to imagine wanting to actively discard them is beyond me. Many posters offering systems to eschew balance have highlighted how fantasy novels don't need to be balanced, but the only balance they're really evading is PNP RPG balance. A novel must still have character development, plot progression, twists, drama, etc. in order to be a successful novel. You might as well ask why a benchpress needs the same weight on both sides when a pulley doesn't (hint: it's because they are both accomplishing different tasks). Anyways, my befuddlement aside, the reality is your best option is to switch to older, less balanced editions of D&D. [/QUOTE]

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