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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4656644" data-attributes="member: 48965">Here we go again, I don't understand this line of questioning... I mean are you expecting me to say well if he can't then he shouldn't be running a game with them in it?&nbsp; If so, ok... you win, but this in and of itself only means balance is a tool that may or may not be (especially dependent upon how that balance was achieved and what it was created around, as well as what was sacrificed to achieve it.) necessary or even well suited for every GM's needs in running his game.&nbsp; Again balance in and of itself is not objectively better since how it is achieved, what it affects and it's effect on play must&nbsp; be factored in and then subjectively the balance as a good or bad thing can be decided on by an individual.I guess for me, in the end there are too many axis for a roleplaying game to be balanced or unbalanced on... team combat, PvP combat, skill use, proficiency in skill use, attributes, roles, equipment, etc.&nbsp; The only way an rpg achieves balance is for everything to be the same.&nbsp; In 4e this is very apparent to me, the power systems... Arcane, Martial, Divine are all based around the same mechanic... Yes they are more balanced than 3.5, but also more homogenous... In 4e combat you will be Superman, since Batman has been declared unfun to play... regardless of whether you thought he was fun to play before or not ( and this is reinforced even more strongly by the fact that your team is more dependent in combat on your choices than they were in 3.5, all IME of course.).&nbsp; Of course outside of combat (because there is no need to balance this for some reason) you can still be dumb fighter (3 skills) or uber-skilled Rogue (6 skills).... but then the only way to balance this is to make sure everyone has the same skills and the same amount of skills... otherwise someone might not be able to do something while another player can in a skill challenge...and you have less options in a skill challenge than another player and these are unfun as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 4656644, member: 48965"] Here we go again, I don't understand this line of questioning... I mean are you expecting me to say well if he can't then he shouldn't be running a game with them in it? If so, ok... you win, but this in and of itself only means balance is a tool that may or may not be (especially dependent upon how that balance was achieved and what it was created around, as well as what was sacrificed to achieve it.) necessary or even well suited for every GM's needs in running his game. Again balance in and of itself is not objectively better since how it is achieved, what it affects and it's effect on play must be factored in and then subjectively the balance as a good or bad thing can be decided on by an individual. I guess for me, in the end there are too many axis for a roleplaying game to be balanced or unbalanced on... team combat, PvP combat, skill use, proficiency in skill use, attributes, roles, equipment, etc. The only way an rpg achieves balance is for everything to be the same. In 4e this is very apparent to me, the power systems... Arcane, Martial, Divine are all based around the same mechanic... Yes they are more balanced than 3.5, but also more homogenous... In 4e combat you will be Superman, since Batman has been declared unfun to play... regardless of whether you thought he was fun to play before or not ( and this is reinforced even more strongly by the fact that your team is more dependent in combat on your choices than they were in 3.5, all IME of course.). Of course outside of combat (because there is no need to balance this for some reason) you can still be dumb fighter (3 skills) or uber-skilled Rogue (6 skills).... but then the only way to balance this is to make sure everyone has the same skills and the same amount of skills... otherwise someone might not be able to do something while another player can in a skill challenge...and you have less options in a skill challenge than another player and these are unfun as well. [/QUOTE]

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