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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AngeltheTechrat" data-source="post: 4657917" data-attributes="member: 82200">First of all, I didn't think we were just talking about 4E here. Sure.. I do think it's got some of the largest and most current "issues", but.. well like I said, it's a continuation of a trend I've been noticing.  I tend to pursue character concepts. To build out of the game, or sometimes if particular things catch my eye, to add them into a concept. I've noticed a greater tendancy for this to become frustrating, because the trade-offs I make to do so can wind up crippling in more so-called Balanced ways. I don't want to have to take the tacticaly or numericaly advantageous choices just to keep up with the foes in the game. In 3E, I think we all know how often this happened to multi-class spellcasters. Another thing about 3E that I'm seeing happen again in 4E is the need for all the stupid little boosting items.. Ugh.. Because threats are supposedly balanced against PCs that min-max in that way, you wind up HAVING to deck yourself out with this stuff or the game punishes you for it. In 3E, this was more prevalent when it came to deffensive buffers. In 4E, it's proving more to be so with weapon and impliment pluses. I would rather an item have "nifte effects". I don't want to have to toss something nifty because it's just not hitting anymore and I need something with better pluses. Ugh. It was also true that many people found Level Adjustment in 3E to be somewhat crippling at different points, because of things being balanced to an inflated level. If you want even more specific examples from me, personaly, I'll try to give a couple. In 3E, I had a bard who was more than a little on the chaotic side. When she came across strange new things, sometimes she just had to have them. Gnomish Swift Feet. They were from Mongoose's Ultimate Equipment Guide, and were basicaly roller-skates that buckled to your boots. They required an Exotice Device feat to use without killing yourself. Now, they weren't especialy tacticaly advantageous, especialy in our game, as we weren't using a battle mat, just asking the DM "if we could get close enough to x do y action this round". Speed only became an issue in the event of a pursuit, and obviously a pursuit if it happened there were less odds that the terrain a hand would lend itself advantageously to having wheels on one's feet. Besides.. fliers would always trump that in a pursuit anyway. Nevertheless, she just had to have Gnomish Swift Feet. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Toward the end of her carrier, she came across the Ribbon Swords and Ribbon Daggers from Bastion's Arms & Armor. Again, she just had to have them. Despite the fact that they were both exotic, and I'd need to spend the next four levels awaiting the feats to use them properly, and the costs associated with getting enchanted versions of the swords (The cost of two magic weapons and two magic shields for a net of two magic weapons and an only-part-time-shield). Ribbon Daggers were actually no better in any fashion than regular daggers. But if you're keeping count, I've already blown 3 feats just on flavor. Those weren't the only feats I sunk into flavor in the character wither, just the ones dealing with gear, but I've gone on long enough. If you need further proof I don't mind playing "weaker" characters, I can go into said bard's race, though. In 4E, I'm still doing the same things. I put flavor before min-maxing game mechanics, and the game punishes me for it. My only 4E character thus far had been envisioned as a bookish 2-weapon ranger (Eledrin using a longsword and spear) filling out ranged attacks with magic instead of a weapon (the more characteristic elven bow use) and some trixy utility in the form of cantrips. (I love Prestidigitation.. Always have.. Remember when they made Cantrip a proficiency toward the end of 2E instead of a spell? Love.) What I've been forced to do, however, is make Wizard the class (no other way to get the cantrips or spellbooks that I so very much want for the flavor), and paragon multiclass into Ranger in order to get any decent Ranger abilities.. (and by that I mean Twin Strike.. In order to just get Twin Strike, I need to vent 4 feats from Heroic Tier into it). And to top it off, any time time I try to do anything rangerly in combat, I get cut down, because I just don't have the hp to take a hit, and I'm forced into this "Controller" role which is nowhere near how I want this character to behave. So the more combat I'm in, the less I'm enjoying this character. I don't feel "heroic" I feel redundant, and now I'm contemplating two other characters that are either a full Ranger or a full Wizard, and therefore yes. I feel the game is forcing me to look into cookie cutter molds rather than the flavors I was aiming for. All because combat is "ballanced". With problems of suspension of disbelief, in 4E, I'm definately looking at how someone can reload a crossbow as a free action, how a Ranger and his Animal Companion suddenly run on a slow processor when a battle starts, and how roughly 40% of halflings are stronger than roughly 40% of minotaurs. I mean.. c'mon.  Nooo.. no no no no.... Don't turn them into combat! There is enough focus on combat! <img src="http://thundershot.net/thex/images/smiles/cry.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /><img src="http://thundershot.net/thex/images/smiles/embarassed.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />  Yes.. this is kind of happening a lot. We finaly got Animal Companions back (though see thoughts regarding mysteriously slow processor).. now how about Familiars and Cohorts? The upcomming Shaman class looks to be shedding a lot of its abilities as well, sadly. And why do Rangers have to make such a choice between three different facets..? In the past, Rangers had no trouble doing all three of these. This, too, is not just limited to 4E. One question I had all throughout 3E was "Why can't bards have Color Spray?"  This is all getting way too heated actually.... Can I have my discussion training-wheels now? <a href="http://javascript:emoticon(':oops:')" target="_blank"><img src="http://thundershot.net/thex/images/smiles/embarassed.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a> .... or at least a comfy chair.. <a href="http://javascript:emoticon('::ZZZZ::')" target="_blank"><img src="http://thundershot.net/thex/images/smiles/zzzz.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a></blockquote>

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