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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alex319" data-source="post: 4658061" data-attributes="member: 45678">I'm not sure what you're asking for here. You seem to be complaining that because you put something else (flavor) above making a more powerful character, you end up with a less powerful character. Well, of course you end up with a less powerful character, that's what you were asking for.It would be like saying, "When I decided to go out to dinner, I chose Restaurant A, because it has good tasting food, rather than Restaurant B, which was cheaper. Why am I penalized by having to pay more for my meal?"It seems like what you're asking for is the ability to make "flavor choices" that don't hurt your character's combat ability. But more "balance" among different character classes and different builds makes that easier, rather than harder, because there are more choices that are more equal in power.Or, to get to the point more, what makes you think a "less balanced" game would help solve your problem? If anything, it would make it worse, because if the game is less balanced, there are more likely to be a few builds that are more powerful than any other, and if you don't take one of them, then you are weaker.-----Actually, I think I understand the source of the confusion behind the "balance hurts creativity/flavor" claims. The term "balance" can refer to one of two things:Type A: the emphasis that you, as a player, put on balance. That is, how much do you, as a player, care about having a character powerful enough to hold his own?Type B: the emphasis that the game system puts on balance. That is, when they designed the game system, did they focus on making as many of the different classes as balanced as possible, or did they make it so certain builds/classes are more powerful than others by design?Now, increased Type A balance does reduce your "flavor" options. By definition, increased Type A balance acts a a more stringent constraint (since you are restricting yourself to a narrower range of power) so you have fewer options. In the restaurant analogy, if you have a smaller budget for your meal, you will have fewer options for which restaurant to go to. (Note: Before anyone accuses me of the Stormwind Fallacy, note that I am not claiming that it is impossible to have a "flavorful" character who is also powerful; I am simply claiming that for people who would prefer specific options that happen to reduce their power, they obviously have to choose between having those options or having more power. In the restaurant analogy, it is not true that it is impossible for a cheap restaurant to have good food, but it is true that people with a taste for expensive food have to choose between saisfying that taste and saving money.)However, increased Type B balance increases your flavor options. The more balanced the different "flavor choices" are (in other words, the less difference in power there is between the different flavor choices), then the more game-mechanically-suboptimal "flavor choices" you can make and still keep your power within acceptable levels. In the restaurant analogy, increased Type B balance is like having a coupon book that gives you 50 percent off all the restaurants in the area. If you had this, then you would be able to go to a more expensive restaurant on the same budget.(For clarification, in the analogy, the quality of food is analogous to the desirability in terms of flavor, while the price is analogous to the amount of game-mechanical power sacrificed.)----Now, AngelTheTechrat's example in his most recent post is an example of where the designers failed to achieve Type B balance, because they created a system where multiclassing in the way he wants costs a lot of feats for little mechanical benefit. (Of course, if they fixed this by reducing the feat cost to multiclass, it might break Type B balance in the other direction; certain multiclass combinations could be overpowered if they don't cost a lot of feats. Perhaps a solution would be to make certain multiclass combinations cost less than others, although that might be too complicated.)But, in any case, AngelTheTechrat's example is as example of failure to achieve balance, not an example of balance impeding creativity/flavor.</blockquote>

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