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<blockquote data-quote="Nymrohd" data-source="post: 4658263" data-attributes="member: 59126">One think I like about moral relativism in our campaign stories is the classic of the vaillain who may well be thoroughly evil, yet he is the product of the violence dealt to him because people in the D&amp;D world follow the guidelines that if it is always evil, we can kill it. As for whether D&amp;D deals with moral relativity, I think it does. At the very least 3E did extensively, especially in BoED but also in both its campaign settings, mainly FR (Eberron is far more about trope reversal than moral relativity imo). The story of Obould and the orcs of the North, the Empyrean Trilogy, Paul S.Kemp's books on Erevis Cale are just some examples of that and they all are part of D&amp;D. Even 2E had that also. Personally when I read Faces of Evil, I very much started to challenge the notion that even evil outsiders are inherently evil but rather more the products of an extremely cruel society.So yes, I think that moral relativism is really easily applicable in any D&amp;D campaign. The important thing, the only important thing in D&amp;D after all, is to tailor the game to your group. Some groups can manage to have campaigns where they agonize over killing baby orcs just fine. That doesn't change realism. Sure the evil cultists of Tharizdun are redeemable. And in the night by the campfire, the PC can remember that one of them used to be a friend. But they are hostile to society and dangerous to many others. If the PCs had overwhelming force and could actually capture them they should, but most likely they have a far better chance to kill them and even though it is regretable, it is still needed. But when the PCs kill a creature just because it is evil, without any knowledge of said creature being a threat to themselves or others, they should put unaligned in their character sheets.Moral relativism is not a cease and desist order to all actions of violence. All it does is make sure the players actually have a motive for killing things.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nymrohd, post: 4658263, member: 59126"] One think I like about moral relativism in our campaign stories is the classic of the vaillain who may well be thoroughly evil, yet he is the product of the violence dealt to him because people in the D&D world follow the guidelines that if it is always evil, we can kill it. As for whether D&D deals with moral relativity, I think it does. At the very least 3E did extensively, especially in BoED but also in both its campaign settings, mainly FR (Eberron is far more about trope reversal than moral relativity imo). The story of Obould and the orcs of the North, the Empyrean Trilogy, Paul S.Kemp's books on Erevis Cale are just some examples of that and they all are part of D&D. Even 2E had that also. Personally when I read Faces of Evil, I very much started to challenge the notion that even evil outsiders are inherently evil but rather more the products of an extremely cruel society. So yes, I think that moral relativism is really easily applicable in any D&D campaign. The important thing, the only important thing in D&D after all, is to tailor the game to your group. Some groups can manage to have campaigns where they agonize over killing baby orcs just fine. That doesn't change realism. Sure the evil cultists of Tharizdun are redeemable. And in the night by the campfire, the PC can remember that one of them used to be a friend. But they are hostile to society and dangerous to many others. If the PCs had overwhelming force and could actually capture them they should, but most likely they have a far better chance to kill them and even though it is regretable, it is still needed. But when the PCs kill a creature just because it is evil, without any knowledge of said creature being a threat to themselves or others, they should put unaligned in their character sheets. Moral relativism is not a cease and desist order to all actions of violence. All it does is make sure the players actually have a motive for killing things. [/QUOTE]

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