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"The problem with 5e" is the best feature - advantage
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 8357438" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>The reason why I don't stack Advantage is because trying to get multiple versions of it does one thing that I don't want to see... which is slow the game down.</p><p></p><p>Whether it's a whole heap of +1s and +2s from the 3EPF games... or multiple Advantages in 5E... they both result in the same thing: Players spend inordinate amounts of time looking for and discussing with the other players all the different ways to gain and milk the bonuses. If there was a list of 50 ways to get Advantage and having multiple ones stacked... we'd see every player spend their turn running down the giant list trying to find all the different ones to try and grab. All just to make it more likely you hit on your turn (and/or crit on your turn.) But the game already make the chance to hit quite generous, so the need to make it more and more likely seems unnecessary to me.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I don't see that as engaging with the world... I see that as one more sheet of paper the players have their faces buried in. Now granted... other players play the game differently, and for them... maybe looking at a sheet of mechanical bonuses for narrative events is their way to do so. I just don't happen to agree.</p><p></p><p>For me... "engaging with the world" means acting narratively with what the story presents... making character choices that make sense in reaction to what is happen. And all that occurs without any mechanical bonus or motivation.</p><p></p><p>The character runs and dives behind the stone wall as the arrows rain down upon them because it makes sense to do so... NOT because "I get a +2 bonus to AC". Or the players says "My character is going to leap off the ledge onto the back of the hill giant" because that just seems like a cool move to make, NOT because if they do that then they know it will count as an Advantage.</p><p></p><p>As opposed to a player on their turn who says "Okay, so I need to get Advantage on this attack, so let's see... I'm going to do this thing here. And I can get a second Advantage if you cast this spell on me. And the third Advantage I can get if I flank, so let me move my mini over here. Oh! And if I do this action I can get a fourth Advantage! So let me do that! Am I missing anything else? Is there any other Advantage available to me right now? Anyone? No? Okay, well them let me roll 5d20 for my attack." That to me is actually "engaging with the board game", not "engaging with the world".</p><p></p><p>But as well all know... many of the players of D&D consider the board game the most important part of D&D (which is cool, and I don't begrudge them that). I just don't think that way and don't find the game to be as fun when thinking that way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 8357438, member: 7006"] The reason why I don't stack Advantage is because trying to get multiple versions of it does one thing that I don't want to see... which is slow the game down. Whether it's a whole heap of +1s and +2s from the 3EPF games... or multiple Advantages in 5E... they both result in the same thing: Players spend inordinate amounts of time looking for and discussing with the other players all the different ways to gain and milk the bonuses. If there was a list of 50 ways to get Advantage and having multiple ones stacked... we'd see every player spend their turn running down the giant list trying to find all the different ones to try and grab. All just to make it more likely you hit on your turn (and/or crit on your turn.) But the game already make the chance to hit quite generous, so the need to make it more and more likely seems unnecessary to me. Personally, I don't see that as engaging with the world... I see that as one more sheet of paper the players have their faces buried in. Now granted... other players play the game differently, and for them... maybe looking at a sheet of mechanical bonuses for narrative events is their way to do so. I just don't happen to agree. For me... "engaging with the world" means acting narratively with what the story presents... making character choices that make sense in reaction to what is happen. And all that occurs without any mechanical bonus or motivation. The character runs and dives behind the stone wall as the arrows rain down upon them because it makes sense to do so... NOT because "I get a +2 bonus to AC". Or the players says "My character is going to leap off the ledge onto the back of the hill giant" because that just seems like a cool move to make, NOT because if they do that then they know it will count as an Advantage. As opposed to a player on their turn who says "Okay, so I need to get Advantage on this attack, so let's see... I'm going to do this thing here. And I can get a second Advantage if you cast this spell on me. And the third Advantage I can get if I flank, so let me move my mini over here. Oh! And if I do this action I can get a fourth Advantage! So let me do that! Am I missing anything else? Is there any other Advantage available to me right now? Anyone? No? Okay, well them let me roll 5d20 for my attack." That to me is actually "engaging with the board game", not "engaging with the world". But as well all know... many of the players of D&D consider the board game the most important part of D&D (which is cool, and I don't begrudge them that). I just don't think that way and don't find the game to be as fun when thinking that way. [/QUOTE]
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