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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7364421" data-attributes="member: 18">Some classes do more actual damage than other classes.How is that a problem? You have failed, as yet, to demonstrate any way in which it is.You keep talking about how this is basically a system problem, but in order to support that, you need to really demonstrate it, not just say it, and you need to assume that most parties will not optimize around a Warlord, unless you are assuming all parties optimize around whatever other options are competing (which they don't, in the real world).The killer point for you, which you have yet to address, is that Warlords will not be full casters. They will probably not be casters at all. Whereas all other support classes, now, including Bards, are full casters, all of whom have access to a wide variety of spells which will boost the party, screws the enemy over, straight up kill the enemy, or some combination of the three.So you can't compare Warlords to say, Clerics who don't cast spells or only cast a spell once every so often (because that would be equivalent to a Warlord irregularly and randomly granting attacks). You have to compare Warlords to Clerics or Bards who use all their spells and use them well. At that point, I think it's going to be a great deal more complex as a picture. Yes, the Warlord may be able to attribute more direct rolling of damage-dice to his use of actions (albeit not to him directly), but the sheer amount of buffing and CC the others will put out may well mean their overall contribution to victory is more. I mean, do we count every point of damage to a target under Hold Person as belonging to whoever cast that spell? By your logic we should, or at least some large proportion of it.All this said though, I think a "limited number of extra attacks per short rest" model would probably be fine in practice, so long as the limit was high enough. Again though this is competing with FULL spellcasting, so you'd need a TON of other stuff.</blockquote>

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