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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7364781" data-attributes="member: 6919838">You are correct that the mastermind rogue wont have the other things a warlord class *might have* but at the same time the warlord might not have all the things the mastermind does have - like say his own sneak attack, his own skills and expertise, etc etc etc. As for healing, looking at racial options etc as well as options for using healers kit with feats and as bonus action for some rogues - there are lots of ways to get this or that.*again* a --class-- can be overgunned and overpowered, but the thread did not seem to focus on a single warlord set of finished specs and say &quot;the class if OP as a whole&quot; - instead it chose a single mechanic and said that mechanic is inherently imbalance on its face.That is not to me a supportable claim given the fact that *by definition* it adds nothing *new* to a party capability - just lets it do more of what it can already do. if one wants to claim &quot;this specific version of a finished warlord class is Op and here is why&quot; that is a much different discussion than one about the general concept of per round give action being a problem. The strength of the warlord or any sort of &quot;give action&quot; to me is what i kind of call the &quot;F-18 syndrome&quot; from earlier days of Harpoon gaming which enabled the F-18 to be outfitted as an air superiority fighter for early campaign but then switch to &quot;ground attack&quot; once airsup was gained. The F-18 strength was being able to empower both stages to meet whatever the threat was. Similarly, the warlord should be there and helping to make others awesome - specifically the single most relevant character to a given challenge. gotta say, helping others look awesome is not to me a thing i would rather have as a very limited resource slapped on top of a fighter sub-type. Not saying it should be &quot;cheap&quot; but it should not IMO be limited in its uses any more than the rogue sneak attack would be.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7364781, member: 6919838"] You are correct that the mastermind rogue wont have the other things a warlord class *might have* but at the same time the warlord might not have all the things the mastermind does have - like say his own sneak attack, his own skills and expertise, etc etc etc. As for healing, looking at racial options etc as well as options for using healers kit with feats and as bonus action for some rogues - there are lots of ways to get this or that. *again* a --class-- can be overgunned and overpowered, but the thread did not seem to focus on a single warlord set of finished specs and say "the class if OP as a whole" - instead it chose a single mechanic and said that mechanic is inherently imbalance on its face. That is not to me a supportable claim given the fact that *by definition* it adds nothing *new* to a party capability - just lets it do more of what it can already do. if one wants to claim "this specific version of a finished warlord class is Op and here is why" that is a much different discussion than one about the general concept of per round give action being a problem. The strength of the warlord or any sort of "give action" to me is what i kind of call the "F-18 syndrome" from earlier days of Harpoon gaming which enabled the F-18 to be outfitted as an air superiority fighter for early campaign but then switch to "ground attack" once airsup was gained. The F-18 strength was being able to empower both stages to meet whatever the threat was. Similarly, the warlord should be there and helping to make others awesome - specifically the single most relevant character to a given challenge. gotta say, helping others look awesome is not to me a thing i would rather have as a very limited resource slapped on top of a fighter sub-type. Not saying it should be "cheap" but it should not IMO be limited in its uses any more than the rogue sneak attack would be. [/QUOTE]

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