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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 3549672" data-attributes="member: 2020">Having a bunch of powers, makes you a threat to the other powers.&nbsp; The more powers the elves have, the more they stand out in a kill or be killed world.&nbsp; And there is always envy, jealousy, and hate for the sake of hate!&nbsp; (Those elves have the good life, while we starve.&nbsp; Let's go kill the pointy ears!)&nbsp; I can think of a lot of races that want to kill elves passionately.&nbsp; Orcs, bugbears, giants, evil dwarves, the drow, the phaerimm, Iuz and his demons, Ivid and his devils, all the Knights of Takhisis, Rajak and his Knights of Purity, the sahuagin ... the list is long indeed.&nbsp; Why do they want to kill elves?&nbsp; That is not the point:&nbsp; they just enjoy killing elves!&nbsp; Forests are not quite the refuges they are made out to be.&nbsp; If enough humans (or orcs) exist, they can simply through sheer numbers destroy the defenders, and hack and burn the forest in the process so nobody else can use it for defense.&nbsp; Any castle, whether stone or trees, can fall if sufficient force is brought to bear, and humans have endless forces (or if not them, a hundred thousand strong orc hoard, or an invasion of demons, also works.)&nbsp; Furthermore, forests usually have their *own* peoples.&nbsp; The incoming elves are trespassers.&nbsp; Will the native lizard men put up with these trespassers?&nbsp; Will the yuan-ti in their secret hideout appreciate the gatecrashers?&nbsp; This is the Dreaded Wilderness we are talking about, and the refugee elves are running right into it, hoping for safety!&nbsp; &nbsp; Ok, so the elves are now entrenched in the forest (a classic theme.)&nbsp; Consider the game Risk.&nbsp; I am Ivid, and I have 5 Armies on Rauxes.&nbsp; You are the elves, and you have 5 Armies in the Adri Forest.&nbsp; (No, I am not going to ignore you.&nbsp; Yes, North Province and Ahlissa and Drax the Invulnerable and Nyrond and the Grandwood, etc. are problems, but you are also a nuisance.)&nbsp; Now, a few turns (or decades) later, you have 50 Armies in the Adri, and I have 30 Armies in Rauxes.&nbsp; It's time to go to North Kingdom, ally with them and their 30 Armies, and proceed to purify the Adri of all elven slime.&nbsp; Or Ahlissa.&nbsp; Or even Nyrond.&nbsp; Nothing like diplomacy.&nbsp; You hide in your woods and are isolationist, and have no allies.&nbsp; I, on the other hand, have a whole host of potential friends.&nbsp; This scenario is what eventually brought down Qualinesti.&nbsp; A few hundred years after the Cataclysm, worshippers of Takhisis got it right and formed a powerful army, and wiped the floor with those elves.&nbsp; Turrosh Mak will pull this on Celene, eventually.&nbsp; And didn't Kymil Nemesin really mess up Evermeet, and take out it's last Towers of High Magic?&nbsp; You can't sit back in isolation.&nbsp; *Someone* is going to notice your doings.&nbsp; If not humans then orcs.&nbsp; If not orcs, then demons.&nbsp; If not demons then drow.&nbsp; If not drow, perhaps the illithid think elven brains taste especially good.&nbsp; Just think of what would have happened to all of the elves of Greyhawk and Greyspace, if Vecna and his legions had SUCCESSFULLY come forward in time ...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 3549672, member: 2020"] Having a bunch of powers, makes you a threat to the other powers. The more powers the elves have, the more they stand out in a kill or be killed world. And there is always envy, jealousy, and hate for the sake of hate! (Those elves have the good life, while we starve. Let's go kill the pointy ears!) I can think of a lot of races that want to kill elves passionately. Orcs, bugbears, giants, evil dwarves, the drow, the phaerimm, Iuz and his demons, Ivid and his devils, all the Knights of Takhisis, Rajak and his Knights of Purity, the sahuagin ... the list is long indeed. Why do they want to kill elves? That is not the point: they just enjoy killing elves! Forests are not quite the refuges they are made out to be. If enough humans (or orcs) exist, they can simply through sheer numbers destroy the defenders, and hack and burn the forest in the process so nobody else can use it for defense. Any castle, whether stone or trees, can fall if sufficient force is brought to bear, and humans have endless forces (or if not them, a hundred thousand strong orc hoard, or an invasion of demons, also works.) Furthermore, forests usually have their *own* peoples. The incoming elves are trespassers. Will the native lizard men put up with these trespassers? Will the yuan-ti in their secret hideout appreciate the gatecrashers? This is the Dreaded Wilderness we are talking about, and the refugee elves are running right into it, hoping for safety! Ok, so the elves are now entrenched in the forest (a classic theme.) Consider the game Risk. I am Ivid, and I have 5 Armies on Rauxes. You are the elves, and you have 5 Armies in the Adri Forest. (No, I am not going to ignore you. Yes, North Province and Ahlissa and Drax the Invulnerable and Nyrond and the Grandwood, etc. are problems, but you are also a nuisance.) Now, a few turns (or decades) later, you have 50 Armies in the Adri, and I have 30 Armies in Rauxes. It's time to go to North Kingdom, ally with them and their 30 Armies, and proceed to purify the Adri of all elven slime. Or Ahlissa. Or even Nyrond. Nothing like diplomacy. You hide in your woods and are isolationist, and have no allies. I, on the other hand, have a whole host of potential friends. This scenario is what eventually brought down Qualinesti. A few hundred years after the Cataclysm, worshippers of Takhisis got it right and formed a powerful army, and wiped the floor with those elves. Turrosh Mak will pull this on Celene, eventually. And didn't Kymil Nemesin really mess up Evermeet, and take out it's last Towers of High Magic? You can't sit back in isolation. *Someone* is going to notice your doings. If not humans then orcs. If not orcs, then demons. If not demons then drow. If not drow, perhaps the illithid think elven brains taste especially good. Just think of what would have happened to all of the elves of Greyhawk and Greyspace, if Vecna and his legions had SUCCESSFULLY come forward in time ... [/QUOTE]

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