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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fusangite" data-source="post: 3573821" data-attributes="member: 7240">So, what happens when we mention the indigenous peoples of California, the Yucatan, Washington State and British Columbia AGAIN? Do you have a minor seizure that temporarily blinds you and causes short-term amnesia?Uh-huh? And? Are you now going to present evidence that having a -2 CON penalty causes you to hoard food and then let it rot?How do you know how much they have to trade? Where is this information coming from?We are talking about a lucrative fur trade. As I mentioned, not knowing the supply of the furs, the demand for the furs or the wealth of the furs' consumers, there is no way to know the volume of the furs that will be needed to meet the elves' financial needs. Sadly the DMG does not have a list of fur prices.Also, on what basis do you want to argue "elven lifestyle" from the core? The core rules say that elves like natural environments and like nature. There are plenty of societies that have venerated nature in the human past while having lifestyles that were far more based on killing, eating and wearing animals than medieval European lifestyles were. Now, I know that this will probably cause you another minor seizure that will reset your memory again but many aboriginal cultures in the Americas can be so described.So now, not only are you magically calculating fur prices without adequate information, you are now prepared to calculate the yield of various gem location and extraction techniques in every possible D&D world. Again, you have insufficient information to claim that gem gathering is low-yield in D&D worlds. Mining for gems did not become more efficient than gathering them until fairly recently historically. Furthermore, given the information in table 3-6 of the DMG, you don't exactly need big sacks of gems to pay for stuff in D&D because the average value of a single gem is 145gp.That is true. Fortunately, the working life of a single trained elvish crafter is 4-5 times that of a dwarf. Also, are you now contending that if a species has a racial bonus to something, nobody can compete with them in the marketplace? I guess all the human and gnomish crafters can go home and starve too.I love this: constant unsupported declarations about the economy of every single possible campaign world that can be generated using the D&D rules. Is that the new strategy? Because, if so, it sucks. Look buddy, if you want to build a campaign world in which furs are dirt cheap, elves are vegetarians, gem prices have been artificially depressed, dwarves have a crafting monopoly and there is a virtually negligible magic trade, you can. But to suggest that all campaign worlds must be like this because... well, actually you haven't even given a reason... you can. If that's what makes you happy, you can make as many campaign worlds you want in which elves are DOOMED. You just need to stop dressing this up as being the rules of the game.Says who? Look at the profits from making one ring!Right. And given that, apparently, furs are dirt cheap, elvves are vegetarians, dwarves have a crafting monopoly, gem prices are artificually depressed and there is negligible trade in magic, of course it follows that elves have no liquidity in their economy! It's all so clear now!Uh-huh? And? Feel free to check out the section NPC Spellcasting on page 107 of the DMG to see how this money might be made back in the space of a single afternoon.Right. So, just so I've got this straight, furs are dirt cheap, elves are vegetarians, dwarves have a crafting monopoly, gem prices are artificually depressed, there is negligible trade in magic, elves don't hire out their services as spellcasters AND now, all elves are all organized into single parent or nuclear families and their children require the same levels of care as our culture currently provides. You don't know a damned thing about whether older children are involved in elvish child-rearing, whether childcare is based on extended families, villages or what.Right... and... unlike medieval, hunter-gatherer, ancient societies (indeed, virtually every society before the 20th century), children are not economic actors in elvish societies. I'm learning a lot, from your posts, about how to build a world in which elves are DOOMED. But I have to say, I've stopped learning anything about D&D rules, sociology or anthropology because you're no longer reasoning. You're just making up a series of worst-case scenarios out of thin air. Look man, here's the basic flaw in your logic: Just because you can demonstrate that it is possible to design a world in which elves are doomed, it does not follow that elves are doomed in all possible worlds. Now, you can keep making up arbitrary social and economic characteristics and attributing them to all D&D worlds but that's all you are doing here.So, I've made up a possible number. You've made up a possible number. You like the number 5 more than the number 40. Good for you.So,Oh wait. Never mind. I'm realizing that I'm about to make a point about how mechanically identical <> culturally identical but I realize that doing so would be stupid because the other posters and I have already made this point more than 25 times on this thread. So, why say it again? All it will do is cause you amnesia and we'll be back to you posting that elves are DOOMED in fifteen minutes. If you and Edena want to declare victory by sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "Nah nah nah nah nah not listening not listening!" that's great. Just don't mistake your behaviour for reasoned argument.</blockquote>

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