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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cynic_devine" data-source="post: 3576331" data-attributes="member: 30254">Here's my thought on elves....Firstly I am just going to stick to core materials (of 3.5) & Races of the Wild (basically I am using core here to refer to Wizards D&D products of the current edition not tied to a setting). If you would like to treat a specific setting then let's do that, but realize that the issues presented only apply to that setting. I am talking about elves in general.Elves are one of the best martially trained races around. Consider that the assumption in D&D is that the average member of a race is a commoner. Elven commoners (actually all elves) are proficient in a minimum of 4 martial weapons (6 if you count composite varients of bows as separate weapons), A 1st level human commoner can't do that. No other core race has such well trained members. Plus they have better senses then a human & sleep 1/2 as long. All & all an elven military force could be very deadly. Especially if they are fight on their own terrain. Also consider that every adult member of an elven community should be a fair archer as well (Dex boost & bow proficiency). So elves apparently excell at war, so much so that every elf is trained for it.As to frolicking all day, I don't get that from either source. In fact elves are presented as very driven individuals. Now let's assume that elves love to party, so do humans. Go look at the history of holidays & festivals. Elves do love art & beauty, but this is seems more of a sign of an advanced culture. The problem with the whole bad forest issue is that firstly, elves don't just live in forests. Elves live everywhere. High Elves do love their woods, but grey elves like their mountains, aquatic love the sea, etc. Races of the Wild describe elven communities as having a high degree of technology & that their tech is wide spread in communities. They tend to prefer alchemical items & magic. Heck the book mentions magical effects as common in elven communities (things like continual flame spells & parents keeping an eye on their kids with clairvoyance spells). The elven community in the book even has a water wheel. Human communities (as presented in Races of Destiny) simply are not as advanced. I have never heard of human communities commanly using 3rd level spells as a baby-sitting device.As to elven reproduction, elves actaully mature at 25 (ROTW pg 13) & I guess they don't leave home till after their first century. Elves are said to take an average of 50 years to produce 1-4 children. Doing the math that means in an elven woman's lifetime she could expect to produce 2-8 kids. A low birth rate to be sure, but not that low.Ok let me address some points..As above not all elves do.Go read Races of the WildI see none of this in the core material. ROTW does stress the invidiuallism of their culture.In fact, the PHB mentions how driven elves are.So do humansYes, again see Races of the Wild & they have wizard as a favored classConsidering all elves are trained with these weapons, surePHB pg 105, see also the Complete Scroundrel, & Book of Exalted Deeds. Most elves tend towed CG.  Somewhat surely; mainly elven communities tend to be well camouflaged.  Actaully these days elves & dwarves get along. ROTW even says that they agree on everything important.In most published settings this is certainly true.Only in the sense that humans can field more troops. Individually elves are better trained. Also add in the overwhelming magic factor & humans really aren'tAnd in the core.Elves make seriously overpowered wizards. Consider the "generalist" substitution level for elven wizards or that grey elves get a +2 Int. Also, the elven tendency to disperse magic & tech in their communities means that spells are easier to come by. The elven deities grant respectable domain choices for their clergy. Humans do outbreeding elves, but the elves live longer. Humans breed about 80% faster, but elves live on average 6x longer, it balances out. I really don't see this in the core material. In fact the PHB & ROTW both stress how closely the two races are linked & how common half-elves are.Really drow & orcs are the main races out to get the elves. Orcs are no where up to the task. The half-orc is really underpowered as a race & the orc isn't much better.The problem with this thinking is that it can apply to any race, humans included.  And capable of living that long.  Well it depends. See elves are described more as aloof & less likely to take petty insults. ROTW describes the relationship with other races & it is mostly positive. What is stressed is that elves are individualists above all.Elves are not presented as expansionist, no; however, a non-expansionist culture can fare fine.The drow are problem to be sure, but not as much as it might seem on the surface. Drow got problems of their own (like other drow & all those other nasty underdark races). Also the elves are at a severe advantage on their own turf. Hell human's got a far larger loss of life regularly from being so short lived. Frankly if the drow were that big of threat to the elves, the Seldarine would get involved. Corellon is a greator deity & Lolth an intermediate deity, so there you go.The blood feud depicting between sub-races in the core is the drow thing, but then the drow hate everybody. I doubt there are more feuds in elven communities then in human communities. In fact, there are problably less as elves are more likely to be good.Actually I don't see that anywhere. Elves are presented a less afraid of death. They see it as a natural part of life.Wow long post.</blockquote>

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