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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 3576572" data-attributes="member: 2020">It is true that we can't seem to agree on the subject.  From your point of view, I am not taking in or grasping what you're saying.  From my point of view, you're not grasping what I'm saying.  We're just have to agree to disagree, and discuss the subject from our individual perspectives.  However ...    I think that if you were to take some of the ideas posted in this thread, and put them in a 4E Player's Handbook, it would make the elves a more enjoyable race to play for many people.  By ideas, I mean *your* ideas.  If *your* ideas expressed were put in the 4E Player's Handbook, it would be better.  Both the Fluff and Crunch you've offered and presented.   In the past, I have noted a lot of players who did not like elves, either as a race or as PCs in their game.  Forrester, that infamous killer-of-elves in the 1st IR, comes to mind.  And I ask:  why do they dislike elves so?  (Believe it or not, elves are *my favorite race.*  I wouldn't discourse on them for so long otherwise.)  Well, I don't know why they don't like elves.  Each to their own.  But I think it may have to do with too much explanation of the How, and not enough of the Why.  As in, elves build mighty cities, are great mages, are impressive warriors, and eat berries in the forest.  You know the clique.  It started with Tolkien, has been going since.  Not enough of the Why.  If elves outbuild dwarves, I certainly want to know the why of that! (and isn't elven chain better than anything the dwarves could offer, prior to 3E?)  If elves can create great cities when they are forest critters, why is that?  If elves are chaotic good but some of the worst racists around even to their own people, why is that?  If elves are magically adept, why is that?  Much earlier on, I mentioned the idea of elves throwing Lifeproof to protect themselves.  But I pointed out that I couldn't live with it without providing the Why, which dragged me into writing a whole backstory (ala Haldendreeva, and I didn't do so good a job on that.)  I was hoping for more of the Why in the 2nd Edition Complete Book of Elves.  There was a lot of What, and a little of the How, but not much of the Why.  ('In the elven treecity, all the elves take care of each other.'  Ok.  That's the What.  Now, about the How?  And the Why?)  There are so *many* supplements detailing the elven How.  So many.  But not nearly as much on the How, and the Why.  It is frustrating.  In short, if elves live and play and work and frolic in those there woods, how and why?!  (After 30 years of the What, I think a bit on the How and Why is justified.  Don't you?)  Yes, you'all have given a *lot* of answers.  And it would be good material for the game, I think.  But our thinking and ideas, ultimately, end up only as house rules.  Our musings will not make it to the core rules.  Someone else, must decide how (or whether) to present things in the core rules.  Yours Sincerely  Edena_of_Neith</blockquote>

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