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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8330144" data-attributes="member: 87792">Counterexample: The Roman Catholic Church. Priests can be defrocked - but the sacraments are permanent. They just can't officiate on behalf of the church. Not losing clerical sacramental abilities at least until they are formally stripped is of course necessary in real world situations for any large church; if a heretic couldn't offer sacraments then there would be huge questions over whether people were married or (even more importantly) whether people had been baptized. The RCC is far from the only example - just I believe the biggest religious grouping on the planet. A big thing here is that clerical magic in D&amp;D isn't from exemplary faith or perfection. The class is cleric, not saint and perfection has never been required.No - but they would be prevented if there was such an obvious litmus test.I'm fine with such cosmologies too - but not as the default. If you want to say that the deities of the Forgotten Realms are (a) unusually meddlesome and (b) petty enough to support the Wall of the Faithless then that's a specific setting conceit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8330144, member: 87792"] Counterexample: The Roman Catholic Church. Priests can be defrocked - but the sacraments are permanent. They just can't officiate on behalf of the church. Not losing clerical sacramental abilities at least until they are formally stripped is of course [I]necessary [/I]in real world situations for any large church; if a heretic couldn't offer sacraments then there would be huge questions over whether people were married or (even more importantly) whether people had been baptized. The RCC is far from the only example - just I believe the biggest religious grouping on the planet. A big thing here is that clerical magic in D&D [I]isn't [/I]from exemplary faith or perfection. The class is cleric, not saint and perfection has never been required. No - but they would be prevented if there was such an obvious litmus test. I'm fine with such cosmologies too - but not as the default. If you want to say that the deities of the Forgotten Realms are (a) unusually meddlesome and (b) petty enough to support the Wall of the Faithless then that's a specific setting conceit. [/QUOTE]

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