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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8335892" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I know that isn't what you said, that's why I added the bold and the underline. Because now we have a problem with what you have been saying. See, now we have that alignment is useful... to the people who know how to use alignment from older editions. It isn't currently useful to those people who are new and are coming into it. Which is a weird pivot from earlier claims that you made that there are no problems with new people coming in an using alignment. You and others have claimed that they do perfect fine understanding it... but now they need an expansion of alignment, to get full use out of it. But at the same time, those people who don't get a use out of alignment as currently written, don't need to use it. I bolded you saying that so those are your words. I added currently written because in the previous connected sentence you were talking about expanding it. But, new players aren't getting a use out of alignment, which is why you want to expand it, but they don't need to use it? That is confusing and a bit nonsensical. Because, one of the core debates is that alignment isn't making sense. And the response has pretty consistently been "It does make sense, you just don't understand it, and if you don't understand it, you don't need to use it." You wouldn't say that the game doesn't work if you don't use alignment. So, what is the usage on expanding it? You, Oofta, Helldritch and others don't need it expanded. You already understand it. Those new players and others who don't understand alignment? You've already dismissed them as not needing to use something that they don't understand. So, it would only be an expansion for "less creative" players (by the way, kind of a subtle insult there) who understand alignment but aren't getting full use out of the current alignment? And if they understand it... why aren't they getting full use out of it?I know you said it didn't make sense before so I'll rewrite some of this in a simpler format. 1) You and other people who use alignment say you get great use out of alignment. 2) You and the people who use alignment have stated that if we don't understand alignment, then we don't need to use it. 3) You would not claim that not using alignment breaks the game or makes it unplayable. Not using alignment is a viable way of playing. 4) The currently written system of alignment is inadequate, unless you understand it from previous editions.  (Your claim)5) The people in point 1 are still getting use out of the currently written system of alignment. 6) If point 3 is true, then no expansion of alignment is necessary, because not using alignment is viable, and in point 2 we have established that you believe those who don't understand alignment should just abandon it.</blockquote>

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