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Message: <blockquote data-quote="transmission89" data-source="post: 8325666" data-attributes="member: 6688441">Yeah, refer to my first post on that quote where I’ve already explained what that is and what it is not. I’ve already gone over the language used and again, have discussed that language within its context. I’m not going to repeat it, this just shows you’ve not read what I wrote, whether or not you agree or disagree. Like you show youve not properly read the article where you’ve linked a quote from the Dimitra Fimi, paragraphs are spent talking about the origin of Orcs (hint, not as a stand in for East Asians), and focus solely on the paragraphs that do have the (definitely not appropriate in a modern age) language used as a crude descriptive aid. Which again, I’ve already discussed in my earlier posts (we both agree it’s not acceptable in a modern context). So the images, we are back now on D&D. A wonderful selection of images you have there. Hang on though, where’s your image of the Orc from the AD&D monster manual? Seeing as we are trying to draw a direct line from the racist Tolkien origin of Orcs to D&D, we have that creature directly in there.[ATTACH=full]139469[/ATTACH]This armour doesn’t look particularly East Asian to me. What about the Goblin?  The progenitor of the Orc? Well here he is from Od&D:[ATTACH=full]139466[/ATTACH]Still not East Asian, lets try the the AD&D monster manual:[ATTACH=full]139467[/ATTACH]Noooopppeee. It’s almost like there’s cherry picking going on to try and prove a point.Ok so, the AD&D Hobgoblin, something not in Tolkien’s work, but, I get it, theres that wider issue in D&D itself. The hobgoblin’s Schtick, is that unlike other goblinoid, these guys are super disciplined, martial focused etc. Now, Gary and co in the early days of D&D Filled it with a grab bag of ideas, myths, legends, folklore, mashing up ideas and elements of history from all over the world. In this mindset, this fever of excitement and grabbing things, what is a feudal army that was renowned (rightly or wrongly) with this discipline, focus, dedication, and with a badass, distinctive looking armour? Awesome, samurai fit the bill. And well, it became the look of hobgoblins. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that 5th edition, an edition designed at its core to appeal to a nostalgia of the older games after the divisive 4e would include art work that evoked older editions artistic direction!Having read lots of the early days of the hobby, there’s enough to suggest that little thought when into adding something beyond “oh my days that’s cool, whack it in”, but I’ve seen very little that suggests there was a concerted effort on the part of any of the early creators to go out of their way to make goblinoids be representative of any specific ethnicity. Certainly, a level of sensitivity is lacking to a modern audience accustomed to such things, but no deeper meanings there.As always, if they aren’t a fit for your group, that’s fine. It’s what works for your table.</blockquote>

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