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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 8328374" data-attributes="member: 177">Please watch your language and don't call people names.Then, &quot;your side&quot; is ignoring (willfully or otherwise) the writings of the author stating the intended association:In a private letter, Tolkien describes orcs as:&nbsp; &quot;squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types.&quot;The connection is fully intended on Tolkien's part, not merely the reader's perception after the fact.So, you speak of this as &quot;not intended&quot;, as if this is some sort of absolution.If someone is texting while driving, and they hit you with their car, the didn't intend to hit you.&nbsp; But your bones are still broken, and you are still bleeding.&nbsp; And that person is still responsible for their actions, even if unintentional.&nbsp; Harm is not linked to intent.When driving a car, you're supposed to be mature and responsible enough to not get distracted.&nbsp; When you are living in a nation and world of many cultures, you're supposed to also be mature and responsible in how you treat other people - you should be expected to pay attention to the effects fo your actions, and adjust them to not cause harm.So, you aren't curmudgeonly, but you are willing to tell other folks, with different life experiences, what is relevant to their concerns and struggles?&nbsp; The... presumption and condescension implied there does not sound like an improvement over being a curmudgeon.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 8328374, member: 177"] Please watch your language and don't call people names. Then, "your side" is ignoring (willfully or otherwise) the writings of the author stating the intended association: In a private letter, Tolkien describes orcs as: [I]"squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types."[/I] The connection is fully intended on Tolkien's part, not merely the reader's perception after the fact. So, you speak of this as "not intended", as if this is some sort of absolution. If someone is texting while driving, and they hit you with their car, the didn't [I]intend[/I] to hit you. But your bones are still broken, and you are still bleeding. And that person is still responsible for their actions, even if unintentional. Harm is not linked to intent. When driving a car, you're supposed to be mature and responsible enough to not get distracted. When you are living in a nation and world of many cultures, you're supposed to also be mature and responsible in how you treat other people - you should be expected to pay attention to the effects fo your actions, and adjust them to not cause harm. So, you aren't curmudgeonly, but you are willing to tell other folks, with different life experiences, what is relevant to their concerns and struggles? The... presumption and condescension implied there does not sound like an improvement over being a curmudgeon. [/QUOTE]

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