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<blockquote data-quote="Cadence" data-source="post: 8333317" data-attributes="member: 6701124">Tolkien's and similar use of 'race of men' vs. 'race of elves' or whatnot, seems to certainly be outweighed by the negative uses of the word's other definitions before and since.&nbsp; I'm tempted to suggest 'peoples' instead of 'races' for the humanoids, but then does that box out the centaurs and treants, for example.&nbsp; Sure, 'species'.I guess my question about Orcs and Elves and Klingons and Vulcans is, what's their purpose?I don't know if I have words I want to put down for any of them but I think I can see a storytelling purpose for the humanoid animals (some flavors of lizardmen, kenku), the things from Faerie (some flavors of elves, some flavors of goblins), the things from the far realms and abberations (ilithid) and the undead (vampires and zombies), and the outsiders (angels and devils) that don't have to drift into problems.But is the purpose of dwarves, halflings, and orcs (or Klingons and Vulcans) mostly to allow for a certain type of person to not be a human - often with a solid slop of some extreme stereotype thrown on?&nbsp; That is, to essentially be another race of humans?&nbsp;&nbsp; Does that work if the other race is &quot;better&quot; or doesn't overlap in too many ways at all - but fall flat if they are &quot;lesser&quot; or are portrayed as the other?&nbsp;&nbsp; If they're the same, do they just allow for stories about interactions between human groups, without needing one of them to be human (is that why they're used in Star Trek so much)?&nbsp; How important is that in a fantasy world? Oh for a time machine and the hope that we would actually be better than our ancestors were in those same situations.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadence, post: 8333317, member: 6701124"] Tolkien's and similar use of 'race of men' vs. 'race of elves' or whatnot, seems to certainly be outweighed by the negative uses of the word's other definitions before and since. I'm tempted to suggest 'peoples' instead of 'races' for the humanoids, but then does that box out the centaurs and treants, for example. Sure, 'species'. I guess my question about Orcs and Elves and Klingons and Vulcans is, what's their purpose? I don't know if I have words I want to put down for any of them but I think I can see a storytelling purpose for the humanoid animals (some flavors of lizardmen, kenku), the things from Faerie (some flavors of elves, some flavors of goblins), the things from the far realms and abberations (ilithid) and the undead (vampires and zombies), and the outsiders (angels and devils) that don't have to drift into problems. But is the purpose of dwarves, halflings, and orcs (or Klingons and Vulcans) mostly to allow for a certain type of person to not be a human - often with a solid slop of some extreme stereotype thrown on? That is, to essentially be another race of humans? Does that work if the other race is "better" or doesn't overlap in too many ways at all - but fall flat if they are "lesser" or are portrayed as the other? If they're the same, do they just allow for stories about interactions between human groups, without needing one of them to be human (is that why they're used in Star Trek so much)? How important is that in a fantasy world? Oh for a time machine and the hope that we would actually be better than our ancestors were in those same situations. [/QUOTE]

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