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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8355946" data-attributes="member: 22779">I've often wondered why the whole &quot;Well, my table doesn't have this problem, so this problem must not exist&quot; thing plays such a strong role in people's arguments.&nbsp; It really doesn't matter what your or my table thinks or does.&nbsp; That's not the point.&nbsp; We're talking about the larger presentation, not narrowly focusing on those five or six people who, because they are longtime friends, never talk about these issues.&nbsp; The whole issue in the first place is because people didn't ask questions back in the day.&nbsp; They just accepted these things as &quot;the way things are&quot;.&nbsp; Which is the entire problem in a nutshell.&nbsp; If this garbage was sorted out forty years ago, when it was first presented, then we wouldn't be having these conversations.&nbsp; That a given group isn't having these conversations and isn't asking these questions, really doesn't prove anything.&nbsp; Some people ARE asking these questions.&nbsp; And the answers are revealed to be pretty damning.&nbsp; Has anyone's answer to, &quot;Why are orcs being described using language pulled straight from incredibly racist sources?&quot; ever been one that in any way justifies this use?&nbsp; I've seen, &quot;Oh, well, that's just your interpretation, I don't see it&quot; style answers.&nbsp; I've seen, &quot;Well, it's not a problem at my table&quot; style answers, and I've seen tons of Thermian Argument style answers which try to justify these decisions through in-game fiction.&nbsp; But never once have I seen anyone try to even suggest that using 19th century pseudo-scientific race language is a good thing that adds anything positive to the game.&nbsp; Since it adds nothing positive to the game, and it actively harms people who want to enjoy the game, why on earth would we keep it?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8355946, member: 22779"] I've often wondered why the whole "Well, my table doesn't have this problem, so this problem must not exist" thing plays such a strong role in people's arguments. It really doesn't matter what your or my table thinks or does. That's not the point. We're talking about the larger presentation, not narrowly focusing on those five or six people who, because they are longtime friends, never talk about these issues. The whole issue in the first place is because people didn't ask questions back in the day. They just accepted these things as "the way things are". Which is the entire problem in a nutshell. If this garbage was sorted out forty years ago, when it was first presented, then we wouldn't be having these conversations. That a given group isn't having these conversations and isn't asking these questions, really doesn't prove anything. Some people ARE asking these questions. And the answers are revealed to be pretty damning. Has anyone's answer to, "Why are orcs being described using language pulled straight from incredibly racist sources?" ever been one that in any way justifies this use? I've seen, "Oh, well, that's just your interpretation, I don't see it" style answers. I've seen, "Well, it's not a problem at my table" style answers, and I've seen tons of Thermian Argument style answers which try to justify these decisions through in-game fiction. But never once have I seen anyone try to even suggest that using 19th century pseudo-scientific race language is a good thing that adds anything positive to the game. Since it adds nothing positive to the game, and it actively harms people who want to enjoy the game, why on earth would we keep it? [/QUOTE]

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