Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The problem with Evil races is not what you think
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="VelvetViolet" data-source="post: 8359756" data-attributes="member: 6686357"><p>I agree that they’re a racist allegory. I cannot understand the minds of people who claim otherwise. The people in group #2 that I mentioned. They believe that HPL’s fish story cannot have racist themes because the fish people are fictional. When challenged, they’ll point to sources that confirm their confirmation bias. “See? This Israeli critic says that Innsmouth isn’t racist!”</p><p></p><p>The short story “The Doom that Came to Innsmouth” is emblematic of this kind of thinking. It has the same racist themes as TSoI except updated for the post-Civil Rights era. It’s even more disgusting than its inspiration, because at least in TSoI the story was told by unreliable narrators and you can contrive a non-racist interpretation of the events, but TDtCtI has no such ambiguity and the author seems painfully lacking in self-awareness.</p><p></p><p>But I don’t agree (aesthetically speaking) with going in the other direction and writing the fishies as a persecuted minority like “The Litany of Earth” does. Even a charitable analysis of the original Innsmouth story can’t whitewash (pun not intended) that the fish people acted like colonizers and are in telepathic thrall to an alien squid dragon thing that is known for driving humans who overhear its thoughts insane. </p><p></p><p>I recommend Leila Hahn’s analysis, since it is the single most detailed and least biased analysis I could find: <a href="https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/lets-read-everything-howard-phillips-lovecraft-ever-wrote.19724/post-11844622" target="_blank">Let's Read: everything Howard Phillips Lovecraft ever wrote Books</a></p><p></p><p>There’s also this comparison by a Greyirish: <a href="https://deepcuts.blog/2018/04/21/the-doom-that-came-to-innsmouth-1999-by-brian-mcnaughton-the-litany-of-earth-2014-by-ruthanna-emrys/" target="_blank">“The Doom That Came to Innsmouth” (1999) by Brian McNaughton & “The Litany of Earth” (2014) by Ruthanna Emrys</a></p><p> </p><p>I agree with Greyirish that these stories fail to actually explore the alien natures of the mermen, instead using them purely as either racist allegories or anti-racist allegories. I prefer horror stories over dark fantasy, and I prefer horror that doesn’t rely on racism. So far the only Innsmouth fanfic (because they’re all ultimately fanfics, even if you can legally sell them) that I enjoyed was the adventure game <em>Call of the Sea</em>, as it didn’t rely on racism and didn’t depict the fishies as a persecuted minority either.</p><p> </p><p>I suppose my tastes are idiosyncratic, but my taste is my taste.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="VelvetViolet, post: 8359756, member: 6686357"] I agree that they’re a racist allegory. I cannot understand the minds of people who claim otherwise. The people in group #2 that I mentioned. They believe that HPL’s fish story cannot have racist themes because the fish people are fictional. When challenged, they’ll point to sources that confirm their confirmation bias. “See? This Israeli critic says that Innsmouth isn’t racist!” The short story “The Doom that Came to Innsmouth” is emblematic of this kind of thinking. It has the same racist themes as TSoI except updated for the post-Civil Rights era. It’s even more disgusting than its inspiration, because at least in TSoI the story was told by unreliable narrators and you can contrive a non-racist interpretation of the events, but TDtCtI has no such ambiguity and the author seems painfully lacking in self-awareness. But I don’t agree (aesthetically speaking) with going in the other direction and writing the fishies as a persecuted minority like “The Litany of Earth” does. Even a charitable analysis of the original Innsmouth story can’t whitewash (pun not intended) that the fish people acted like colonizers and are in telepathic thrall to an alien squid dragon thing that is known for driving humans who overhear its thoughts insane. I recommend Leila Hahn’s analysis, since it is the single most detailed and least biased analysis I could find: [URL='https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/lets-read-everything-howard-phillips-lovecraft-ever-wrote.19724/post-11844622']Let's Read: everything Howard Phillips Lovecraft ever wrote Books[/URL] There’s also this comparison by a Greyirish: [URL='https://deepcuts.blog/2018/04/21/the-doom-that-came-to-innsmouth-1999-by-brian-mcnaughton-the-litany-of-earth-2014-by-ruthanna-emrys/']“The Doom That Came to Innsmouth” (1999) by Brian McNaughton & “The Litany of Earth” (2014) by Ruthanna Emrys[/URL] I agree with Greyirish that these stories fail to actually explore the alien natures of the mermen, instead using them purely as either racist allegories or anti-racist allegories. I prefer horror stories over dark fantasy, and I prefer horror that doesn’t rely on racism. So far the only Innsmouth fanfic (because they’re all ultimately fanfics, even if you can legally sell them) that I enjoyed was the adventure game [I]Call of the Sea[/I], as it didn’t rely on racism and didn’t depict the fishies as a persecuted minority either. I suppose my tastes are idiosyncratic, but my taste is my taste. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The problem with Evil races is not what you think
Top